Ultra training for beginners

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legend777 Nov 2015 2:37pm, 13 Nov 2015 50 posts	0 legend777 Signed up for my first ultra in April. Vale Coastal 32 miler. Just a baby one in ultra terms. Taking in all the hints and tips. Love the thought of doing longer ultras, but we'll see how the first one goes!
Derby Tup Nov 2015 2:43pm, 13 Nov 2015 18,571 posts	0 Derby Tup 32 miles is a decent start. Something beyond the 26.2 distance without stepping up too far. I tend to think (semi-flippantly) of under marathon as short, 26 to 50 miles as medium and 50+ miles as long
legend777 Nov 2015 2:55pm, 13 Nov 2015 52 posts	0 legend777 In a similar boat to a poster a couple of pages back. 20 weeks to go to my event. Do I start putting in long runs now? I ran Snowdonia Marathon just 3 weeks ago so was kind of looking at another couple of weeks of nothing over half marathon distance. Should point out, my aim is to finish the 32 mile and I have no interest in doing it in a certain time. The cut off is very lenient so nothing to worry about there.
Binks Nov 2015 2:57pm, 13 Nov 2015 6,824 posts	0 Binks I posted this in a forum the other day. No one can claim to know the "best" way to train for an ultra but this is based on how I did it and I think it could be an idea. Hi All. I’d be interested to hear what you think about advice I would give to someone thinking of running an ultra for the first time next year. I get asked every now and then how one should train for a first ultra. I am trying to think of a good response to give to someone who wants to run their first ultra next summer. Say they aimed to run an ultra next Aug. My advice would be to spend between now and April training as normal for a marathon and then the next 3/4 months modifying their training with the intention of running 50 miles in Aug. I think there is a lot to be said for “learning how to train”. I think training for a marathon properly is a good way of learning about your body, it’s limits, it’s weaknesses and your own mental and nutritional needs. I’d say you develop a lot as a runner by doing the marathon properly, that is doing the speed workouts, the tempos, the long slow runs and recoveries. Learning what and how to eat, when to rest, when to push on or hold back. I don’t think you need to be doing 100 mile weeks to gain this education. I think all ultra runners should have trained and raced at least a couple of marathons beforehand. In the advice I give I will say train for the marathon without a single thought about the ultra. Don’t chase both rabbits. Imagine that up until april you have a marathon and only a marathon. Train exclusively for that. Then once the marathon is raced you will have a great base of knowledge and fitness to just throw in more long runs and perhaps compromise a bit on the faster stuff. I know people like to complicate ultra-running by claiming it to be a completely different sport to marathon running but it isn’t really. It’s still just putting one foot in front of the other, just a bit slower for a longer time, perhaps with a back pack. Ultra running is just like any other running only with a bit more exception management. I think 50 miles is a good first distance to kick off with because the experience is likely to be very different to a marathon. Although doing the same thing the extra distance makes it feel like a very different thing. If you are looking for the answer “is ultra-running for me?” I reckon you will get a much more definite yes/no answer from 50 miles than 50k. This has changed from what I may have suggested a few years ago which would have been to trace some path between 0 and 50 and get there gradually. Now I would suggest train as hard as you can for about half the distance in about half the time and then use that base to achieve double that distance in the remaining half. Would you recommend any different? Obviously goes without saying that I would tell them to immediately spend 5 grand on a load of electronics, constricting legwear and paleo flapjacks
HappyG(rrr) Nov 2015 3:19pm, 13 Nov 2015 25,133 posts	0 HappyG(rrr) Lol Binks. I'd say your advice is unconventional. I completely get what you're saying about doing a 50 miler, not just a 50K otherwise it's "just a long marathon" and you don't get the real ultra experience. But many people see a marathon as a big ask and the next step up as being one to build up gradually to too. As everyone always says, there isn't just one right way. If you're a strong, quick marathoner, who has decent marathon experience and has and does train hard for a marathon, then you could go to 50 afterwards, and embark on a post marathon training cycle to get to a solid 50 with confidence. But many people will get to 26.2 and still not feel fully strong or confident and for them, 30 miles or 35 might be their preferred next step? Good luck everyone. I've retired from ultras after only half a dozen, so what do I know?! G (P.S. Buy Binks's book: Running and Stuff by James Adams - it's brilliant! )
jabberknit Nov 2015 3:24pm, 13 Nov 2015 464 posts	0 jabberknit I've entered for the Vale of Glamorgan Coastal as well, Legend, hope to see you there!
Binks Nov 2015 3:28pm, 13 Nov 2015 6,825 posts	0 Binks Ha ha yes good point Happy. In terms of the goal race I think 50 miles is a good thing to have on the brain. There is no reason why you can't do 30-35 miles in training for that. I guess like when trainig for a marathon. you might step up from a half but still do 20 in training. the 20 is not a "target" race. My race distances built up as 26-45-50-55-145-153-3220
legend777 Nov 2015 3:31pm, 13 Nov 2015 55 posts	0 legend777 I think the choice of a 32 miler (lets call it 50K) for me was because I wanted to try a race without 'racing' if that makes sense. I've done four marathons with two of those in the last 7 months so have a good base to work from. However, I always feel like I'm chasing a time with marathons - even my last one in Snowdon which was never going to be close to a PB, and feel like I have to run it all. I'll be using the 50K event with a completely different mindset of completing the distance and not worrying about time. If I have to walk, I'll walk and it won't matter. There's dozens of sty's in the one I'm doing so running it all isn't an option anyway. That said, I do appreciate 50K is probably classed as a 'long marathon' by most experienced ultra-runners and 40-50 miles would be the real tester to see if ultra is for me.
idle_wilder Nov 2015 3:34pm, 13 Nov 2015 220 posts	0 idle_wilder Although 32/33 miles might just be considered a 'longer' marathon by many, that extra 7ish miles above marathon distance can be a big ask for the first step up - the major difference I find between marathon and anything above, is that it's all in your head. If you've done the training and the build up, your body will easily manage the extra miles, but if you can't get your head past marathon distance, even 'only' doing a few extra miles above that will be bloody difficult!
legend777 Nov 2015 3:37pm, 13 Nov 2015 56 posts	0 legend777 How stupid (or maybe not) would signing up a 42 miler, a month after doing your first 50K be? The same company who do the Vale Ultra also do Brecon to Cardiff so another local one for me. Could the 32 miler effectively be an ideal training run for the 42 miler a month later or is it likely to take way too much out of a newbie to attempt another ultra for a few months? Asking sort of for myself but a couple of other people who are in a similar situation to me and wondering if it's possible.