The sub 3.30 marathon thread
190 watchers
27 Feb
8:34pm, 27 Feb 2024
2,661 posts
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ptr_runner
Thanks for the comments all, very useful to get your perspectives on these things. So it seems like my first step is to take the easy runs down a notch. I track HR for all my runs and generally try and sit at the high end of Z2 so ~151 or so (where Z3 starts at 154). By dropping that into the 140s or so, it'll slow the easy pace accordingly. Going by Marks table, that would likely be bang on the right numbers for my easy, marathon and tempo (and I'm sure for interval also). I went out today for another recovery run after the Half. Kept it really easy as I can feel my legs are tired. HR was high 130s and very low 140s with pace at 5:20/km. Once again, thank you all for your input! |
27 Feb
9:36pm, 27 Feb 2024
4,017 posts
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tipsku
I'd agree with Mark's table. These are pretty much my training paces for a 3:30 marathon, being mostly on the slower end of those. Based on your recent half, you could probably run a bit faster than 3:30. I'd start conservatively in the first half, going just under 5 min/km and if feeling good, pick it up in the second half and see if you can maintain 4:45-4:50 until the end. Btw, what was your HR in your last marathon? I ran my sub 3:30 after a 1:41:30 half but that was before the 18 week training block. If I had run a half 4-6 weeks out, I'd expect to be around 1:38 and then have a shot at 3:30. This said, men are usually a bit slower when it comes to converting to a marathon. That's what the fetch calculator says and I've found it to be true for my male team mates. Men of a similar fitness and training level beat me over 5k or 10k by a few minutes (e.g. a 42 or 43 min 10k to my 45 min), they are close to me in the half and on race day, the form on the day could decide, but I'm several minutes faster in the marathon. I think I read somewhere that this is due to the fact that men have a higher fast twitch to slow twitch ratio compared to women and these fibres tire more quickly in the later stages in the marathon. We don't really find that in the elites though - probably not enough time of running to make that happen for them if they run just over 2 hours. The higher percentage of fast twitch fibres allows men to run comparatively faster over shorter distance because their muscles can contract more forcefully but it tends to slow them down more over time. For that reason, they are also more susceptible to muscle glycogen depletion because only the type I slow twitch fibres burn fat. If you have more type II fibres which burn exclusively carbs, you are at a higher risk of underfuelling. I found the link to the article again: researchgate.net What I wrote in the previous paragraphs is on pages 16-18 in the pdf. |
28 Feb
2:46am, 28 Feb 2024
1,875 posts
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Mark J
Well if the pros find these types of long runs hard, then I guess the rest of us shouldn't be too hard on ourselves. |
28 Feb
5:41pm, 28 Feb 2024
37,027 posts
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Hills of Death (HOD)
I did my ‘easy’ 9 mm with two people alledge taking it easy aiming for sub 4 🙈. I’m wondering should I do the easy bit even easier
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28 Feb
5:50pm, 28 Feb 2024
7,358 posts
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Oscar the Grouch
Yes. Well, I do. But it's what suits you. I used to do 18 miles in 2.40/2.50 and max out there, but now I do 20 miles in 3.15 or so and don't stress the pace. The easier the better. Race pace magic reliably visits on the day.
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28 Feb
5:53pm, 28 Feb 2024
2,252 posts
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auburnette
There are lots of aspirant sub 4 marathoners running their "easy" runs at marathon pace! I've run 3:42 with most of my long runs at about 10 minute miles but I do live in a relatively hilly place. My current pace average is about 9:20 across all types of run and that's notable faster than previous marathon cycles (averaging 9:30-9:50). I like a relaxed pace 😎 plus I enjoy shocking people at my club when I unexpectedly beat them on raceday after running most of my training very gentle 😬🤣 |
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28 Feb
5:57pm, 28 Feb 2024
7,359 posts
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Oscar the Grouch
Ah yes, I also live in a quite hilly place. I remember one of our club members saying that he'd run with me at a half marathon because he was in the same group running 8.30-9 mins on a club night, not realising that I'd run a half at 7.30 pace. He quickly dropped off!
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28 Feb
9:25pm, 28 Feb 2024
4,025 posts
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tipsku
Nicely done, auburnette! I like to do that, too. I tend to hang back in group runs and take it easy and then shock people on race day. My training logs include the very easy runs with the beginners at 11 and 12 m/m besides my normal running between 9:20-9:50 so my average paces are a bit skewed towards the slower end. Hills are hidden strength training so you're getting stronger when training there and you have some extra in the tank in a flat race. I really miss the hills of North Wales in flat central Germany. Several of my club mates who have marathon PBs around 3:38-3:45 train faster than me, they run their easy runs around 8:45-9:00 m/m. They couldn't believe that I ran a sub 3:30 before they did. 
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28 Feb
9:30pm, 28 Feb 2024
4,026 posts
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tipsku
Oscar, that's an amusing anecdote. I'm also fascinated by people who train in groups matching their race pace. I don't understand the need to be exhausted after every training session. I want to stress my systems maybe once or twice a week, the rest is nice and chilled. It wouldn't be fun for me if I tried to race every training session.
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7 Mar
10:04am, 7 Mar 2024
1,904 posts
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Mark J
Been a bit quiet in here for the last week. What's going on and as we're getting closer to those listed marathon attempts, what do people's long runs look like this coming weekend? Last week was a rest week for me. 60k total, with my long run being a steady zone 2, 25k. Felt like a proper rest 😁. Back on the mileage this week with my long one on Saturday being a 34k. The next four weeks are looking hard for me before hitting a three week taper. Let me know how you're going and what you have in store. |
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