The Environment Thread :-)
58 watchers
Jun 2022
2:28pm, 6 Jun 2022
58 posts
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craig6p
I think people see climate change as something that will happen in the future. Something that will happen to someone else. Trouble is, it will affect us all, in a potentially very catastrophic fashion. That touches on another frustrating thing. Why should it be normal for people in the UK, for example, to accept things happening to someone else as a result of excessive consumption and destructive systems of provision. Particularly to someone else who doesn't have the same national identity etc. I think the dominant narratives here let people think that way, that depending on the context it's correct to have empathy for your own family and friends, or sometimes for people with the same passport, and that's about it. There are communities that successfully teach their people to extend empathy much further, that teach to value life and nature, but that clearly clashes in some ways with what is generally assumed to be 'normal' here. Just on this point (putting aside some specifics for a moment), it's like our failure in responding to poverty both globally and closer to home is a precedent for failing to respond adequately to what we know about climate change and wider environmental crises. The social regimes that have continued to reproduce poverty are now also responding to climate change, so is it surprising that vulnerable regions are being sacrificed, for starters. Actually there's a problem here for researchers and climate leaders. Researchers often say that perceived distance (in time or location) is a barrier that keeps people from responding to the climate emergency, with evidence from surveys in Sweden for example. When they assume that is human nature, the conclusion they come to is that you have to talk about the impacts that will affect them directly. For sure, when you describe impacts in regions most vulnerable to climate change and how it affects people there, maybe they will even reply 'but how does climate change affect us here'. So sometimes the advice is to talk about less severe, nearby impacts. But I'd say that avoids questioning and even feeds into a path where this 'normal' way to think allows production and consumption to continue to be far more destructive. There is a tendency in human nature to easily split groups into 'us' and 'them', but it's a social process where that really takes shape. That means there's a chance to rethink the racism, nationalism, selfishness, lack of empathy and so on that's behind how we think we should respond to climate and other issues. This path where more vulnerable regions are sacrificed because they're 'somewhere else' quickly turns out to be the same path where people anywhere in the world can struggle to adapt to climate change and wider impacts, and a lot of the natural world is wrecked along the way. So I mean to say that our collective failure to question and rethink who it's normal to care about is among the major reasons the overall response to the climate emergency continues to be terrible. |
Jun 2022
2:39pm, 6 Jun 2022
42,540 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Interesting way of looking at it Craig. And I'd say that there has always been an element of protectionism in there - call it tribalism, inherent genetics or politics or nationalism, but it is definitely a behaviour for which there is evidence. We've done it with wars, poverty, famine etc. Until it feels close, as you say both in terms of time and distance, then it is "somebody else's problem". There are always exceptions - wonderful charities, NGOs and global organisations, and even political and social groupings looking to spread success and minimize poverty and suffering. But it's a relatively small proportion of people and money involved. I think it's a great idea to try and work on humanity's inherent selfishness. But I think it's probably necessary to also be somewhat more ruthless and make it matter to everyone - whether that's explaining the refugees who will be washing up on your shore, or wars and aggression that may be targeted at your country if it's the only one above sea level or with a temperate climate right through to the relatively less trivial but very real "where will you get your electronic goods and avocados if those countries are below sea level?" I think we need to rub the very complacent G7, northern European and American noses in it. I suspect at the moment they think they can "buy" there way out of climate change. Tell me how your dollars, euros and pounds will be able to stop the sea rising up your shore or the hurricanes blowing in your door?!  G
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Jun 2022
2:46pm, 6 Jun 2022
89,883 posts
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Hanneke
run free you are always welcome here! I am actually not doing badly on my efforts. I "wild" gardens and farmland for clients and design gardens to go with their old farmhouses and this unspoilt, gorgeous landscape. Singlehandedly, quietly, I have achieved massive habitat gain by creating wildflower meadows, planting hedgerows, coppicing trees that would otherwise be cut, restore ancient orchards, build dry stone walls, plant woodland and coppice. Do I need to go on? 😇😎😇 It is only recently, when a client pointed out to me what I do, how significant my one man operation is. We are talking hundreds of acres of disadvantaged farmland being slowly handed back to "the Old Ways"... We even now have *whispers* pine martens on one of my clients farms... Ssshhht! We haven't told the new owners or anyone else for that matter... |
Jun 2022
3:10pm, 6 Jun 2022
2,639 posts
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cackleberry
Hanneke - that sounds glorious. Keep it up. Can I come and help? Actually, no, I am so 'dead-fingered' I will kill your veggies AND your weeds!! craig6p and HappyG - Yes, exactly. When the water really does run out on the African countinent, and the people have to up sticks en-mass where are they going to go? Here. But people already here don't see that, the drought caused/exacerbated by climate change is too far away to be their problem. I talk to my OH about 'wasting water'. His response is that we don't pay for it (it's included in our rent - farm mains and soak away) so it's not something he needs to worry about. Poor examples perhaps, but just what is at the top of my brain. I watched a YouTube video the other day which suggested people can't engage with the climate crisis because it is so depressing. It's too big a problem to wrap their heads around. We need more Hannekes in the world! AND for eco-types not be labelled as hippy-tree-huggers (although I'd rather be a hippy any day )
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Jun 2022
3:30pm, 6 Jun 2022
12,649 posts
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jda
A summary of our recent community discussion about RE plans for the locality: acesettleandarea.org Very broad brush, early thoughts. What did we miss? |
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Jun 2022
3:43pm, 6 Jun 2022
42,541 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
jda - very interesting exercise. There isn't much mention (I couldn't find it) of storage for efficient distribution and use. Battery is mentioned once in the context of (domestic) solar PV. The calculation of wind and solar required for the population is hugely improved if the peaks in demand (7.30pm put the kettle on for tea after Coronation Street) and peaks in supply (e.g. daytime sun and windier days) can be smoothed out. Battery isn't the only form of storage (gravity, water, pressurised air etc.) Actually, I see it under Conclusions and next steps. Ditto insulation to reduce demand which was the other big one I was going to say! G
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Jun 2022
3:45pm, 6 Jun 2022
17,274 posts
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rf_fozzy
Yeah, insulation would be #1 on my list. Especially given the age of some of the houses in Settle.
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Jun 2022
3:47pm, 6 Jun 2022
42,542 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
And on the "bigger is better" message re turbines, that's true in terms of single turbine, but distance to consumption is also factor (loss in transmission increases with distance). I think there is more thinking required around microgeneration. A small turbine at the edge of every village or every neighbourhood or even every road end where there is a suitable site?
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Jun 2022
3:48pm, 6 Jun 2022
42,543 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
I don't mean "more thinking" for you, I meant policy makers in general and gov't support. But you guys too, maybe. Great initiative though, by the way. Really good. G
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Jun 2022
3:49pm, 6 Jun 2022
42,544 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
For community led wind setups, this Orkney one might be interesting comparison. oref.co.uk More space and more wind than rural England, but still comparable?
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