The Environment Thread :-)
59 watchers
Jul 2020
5:49pm, 1 Jul 2020
35,420 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Hi I've seen environment (whether emissions, power, climate change, access to countryside, whatever you think of as "environment") discussed in various threads: Politics (obviously), the Electric Car thread fetcheveryone.com/forum/electric-car-anyone-61481/ , run free's excellent "Competitive Running and Keeping The Environment Clean" fetcheveryone.com/forum/running-competitively-keeping-our-environment-clean-60907/ my own Greta Thunberg thread fetcheveryone.com/forum/greta-thunberg---jfk-for-the-climate-generation-61044/ etc. but I haven't seen a general one. So here it is. For those interested in the science, the politics, the action for (and I'll state that for me, this is mostly pro-environment, anti-emissions, anti-pollution etc.) and the hope for the future of our planet. I'll start with a copy of a great post about emissions in shipping that rf_fozzy posted in the Electric Car thread (with kind permission!) " International shipping has so far evaded emissions standards, but pressure is starting to bear on them. And is actually an area where Hydrogen could be very useful - you don't even need to carry all the fuel you need for a journey with you - as you are surrounded by seawater, so you could have a H2 generator onboard and then use that to power the ship. Happy - saw that - and for "balance" - a fully electric plane (battery powered) has also been tested: theguardian.com Last bit of reading I did in the area a few years ago suggested that all the small plane journeys (e.g. Island hoppers) could quite easily be taken by fully electric planes by the mid to late 2020s and we're starting to energy densities that might get close to eventually being able to do short haul flights. Long haul is more of an issue. " Here's the electric / hydrogen plane one too bbc.co.uk So, ask / state / opine away. I reserve the right to whine to the lad Fetch if any annoying climate-change-denying trolls arrive on the pages. Or if anyone is rude. But otherwise, all discussion and opinion welcomed!  G
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Jul 2020
6:10pm, 1 Jul 2020
4,220 posts
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run free
Woo hoo. Thanks G Am organising an eco-festival as part of an eco-church team and just developing all the web pages for it. Am super excited as it will be both activity based and virtual. And it is my first time creating virtual events and hosting (oh dear). So anyone can join it. Most sessions will run on Friday evening. Once am done will let you folk know. |
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Jul 2020
6:13pm, 1 Jul 2020
4,221 posts
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run free
As for planes, trains and carbon emissions - did some research and wrote a blog post: tyrelady.wordpress.com and lots of charts on carbon emissions here so you don't have to read the blog post: tyrelady.wordpress.com |
Jul 2020
8:18pm, 1 Jul 2020
10,495 posts
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rf_fozzy
RF- I'd question that infographic you've got at the top of the page - a car definitely isn't greater emissions per mile than an aircraft. I think there's some major assumptions gone into that graphic that aren't necessarily right. Generally I've seen data that suggest rail (and light rail) are the cleanest form of public transport, then busses. Cars, then vans, then trucks and then finally aircraft are more CO2/mile. *But* it depends on how many people you have in the vehicles. A full car of say 4 people can be better than a bus that's (for example) half full. |
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Jul 2020
8:32pm, 1 Jul 2020
10,496 posts
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rf_fozzy
So here's a slightly expanded one: bbc.co.uk
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Jul 2020
8:37pm, 1 Jul 2020
10,497 posts
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rf_fozzy
Some more data on wikipedia (although usual warnings): en.wikipedia.org Interesting point made on there is the pie chart on RHS - although aviation is *more* polluting than vehicles, Cars and trucks make up nearly 3/4 of all transport emissions. The issue though (of course) is that although aviation is only 10%, it's still growing rapidly, whereas all other forms of transport aren't (to some degree) - before CV19, we'd comfortably reached "peak car" in many "Western" countries and in fact car use was slightly declining. China (as ever) and India and SE asia were growing, but not as rapidly as first feared (partly as China has excellent public transport in the cities I am told, and the country is still rapidly urbanising). |
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Jul 2020
11:39pm, 1 Jul 2020
4,225 posts
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run free
Fozzy yeah I was showing how confusing it can be when you first try to look at which transportation is less carbon polluting and this could be relevant to the country you are in. It is from the Grey Hound company, USA and if you were to look at all the parts of the car including the fuel type, tyre refits, single person, and the maintenance of the roads which needs people to travel to the maintenance then a car would be the most polluting. It was my first attempt at looking at what carbon emissions actually meant. Felt I was falling down a rabbit hole. |
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Jul 2020
10:13am, 2 Jul 2020
35,425 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Thanks for the links Fozzy and Run Free. The calculations and comparisons are really hard aren't they? Do you take the manufacture of an existing good as "sunk damag" and just look at the ongoing running impact? And what about decommisioning cost (breaking up and making safe). Really it's our whole attitude to the need for global travel, movement, access to goods, foodstuffs etc. that need to be challenged. But that's "too big" for most people and political ambition. Infrastructure investment to restart the economy post coronavirus seemed like an opportunity to invest in big renewable energy projects - wind, wave, storage, battery, smart networks etc. But it's turned into funding for schools and hospitals. Easier political win, but a missed opportunity? G
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Jul 2020
12:49pm, 2 Jul 2020
4,229 posts
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run free
G - for carbon emissions calcs, from a company point of view there will be a classification of how much control they have and grouped as 1st degree, 2nd degree etc. ISO 14064 shows how to do the calculations for any company that wants to audit. Went on the course cos wanted to put light into my rabbit hole! All greenhouse gases have a CO2 conversion. Found carbon offsetting is not so straight forward and inevitable allows a company to be more polluting. An example would be the heathrow expansion who want to use carbon offsetting - a licence to pollute. A high profile case was ColdPlay put a lot of money into planting trees in India to offset their world tour. 5 years later found that 40% had died. For a tree to carbon offset one short haul flight, apparently it has to be around for at least 40 years. From a consumer point of view - requires a lot of work to understand. So Vegans who are climate activists will find themselves in a hole with quinoa that is imported from South America, organic cotton requires a lot of resources (water and processing). It is simple if you stick to local produce, grow your own and buy second hand. But in reality is not simple. |
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Jul 2020
9:03am, 3 Jul 2020
35,457 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
What do we think about Hydro Pump Storage as a way of storing energy generated from wind, wave and solar to use when these aren't generating? ft.com They're a bit of a blot on the landscape, but a realistic way to store energy? G
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Useful Links
FE accepts no responsibility for external links. Or anything, really.- why Kodak completely missed the boat when it came to digital cameras
- rf_fozzy: This is quite a good article about how disruptive technology work
- run free's Grand Designs example Ben Laws is a man who built his dream
- Carbon Commentary carboncommentary.com
- UK ombudsman for problems with electricity or gas
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