Sub 3Hr Marathon
312 watchers
Dec 2023
3:19pm, 17 Dec 2023
16,107 posts
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jda
(long run = easy run = everything that isn't specifically a threshold workout)
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Dec 2023
7:09pm, 17 Dec 2023
2,429 posts
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ptr_Red_Nose_Runner
Thanks for that jdawayinamanger, very useful.
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Dec 2023
7:14pm, 17 Dec 2023
158 posts
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Charlesvdw
And tempo pace (and other paces) should be based on the fitness you have right now, not on goal fitness. If you're a 3:44 marathoner who wants to run <3:20 your pace should be based on the 3:44. |
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Dec 2023
8:33am, 18 Dec 2023
2,431 posts
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ptr_Red_Nose_Runner
I find this all so confusing, let me try to explain. I find paces so tricky to work out (hence my question) because if everything had gone well on the day (Munich Marathon Oct 2023) I should have been closer to 3hr35. And i'm confident with some long runs in the legs, I could go sub 3hr30 now. So do I take my Tempo pace a from a 3hr20 finishing time, about 4:30/km, which feels like it would be the right kind of intensity, or from a 3hr30 finish - about 4:45/km. This is the pace I ran on my tempo last week but it felt too slow for a tempo run, but too fast for an easy run. The calculation I was using put my tempo pace for a 3hr45 finishing time as 5:06/km. But that's waaaayyy too slow. I can run a 10 miler in zone 2 at that pace. |
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Dec 2023
8:46am, 18 Dec 2023
16,109 posts
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jda
Are you taking marathon pace as your tempo run pace? That’s too slow. You’ll normally do some marathon pace in training, but most of the hard running should be significantly quicker. What do you do a 10k at?
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Dec 2023
8:54am, 18 Dec 2023
2,434 posts
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ptr_Red_Nose_Runner
No, my understanding is as you've said, that MP is slower than Tempo. I'm not sure what my current 10k would be, i've not run a race pace 10k for quite some time now. |
Dec 2023
11:39am, 18 Dec 2023
238 posts
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Miser
How about running a fairly flat parkrun and basing times off that? Definitely should be a ‘now’ calculation rather than an aspirational one, but equally you need to be willing to change it. As a case study, I changed my MP from 6:45-6:50 to to 6:35-6:40 across my last build up as it became easier and I had race evidence to back up |
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Dec 2023
11:54am, 18 Dec 2023
16,110 posts
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jda
Ok it still definitely looks like your tempo pace is just too low. Maybe more like 4:15 pace? But also I’d not do 40 mins in a block, my plan does things like 4x10 min with 2 min jogging breaks which is more palatable. Still hard but achievable.
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Dec 2023
1:42pm, 18 Dec 2023
2,437 posts
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ptr_Red_Nose_Runner
I think that's the way to go, thanks both. I'll try something different this week and see how I get on. I'm sure all of this is much simpler when you're trying to shave a few minutes or seconds off a time, rather than half an hour or more! |
Dec 2023
6:10pm, 18 Dec 2023
6,799 posts
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Little Miss Happy
It definitely sounds like you need a more realistic idea of where you're at now. As has been said you can't run at MP +/- 60 - 90 secs (LSR pace) based on a hoped for time as it will be too fast for now and take too much out of you. This is one of the reasons I run to effort. If you know your MHR you could run to HR?
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