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Mar 2018
12:31pm, 28 Mar 2018
106 posts
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icenutter
I did the Dark Skies Marathon at the weekend. If you haven't heard of it; it's a trail marathon around Kielder Water. In the dark. It's a pretty cool event; you can see trails of headtorches snaking around the course. Stars this year were nice too. I parked my car at about the 20 mile point, then road my bike to the start. At the end I drove back to pick it up. I was panicking that I'd be accused of cheating. haha. The terrain is a killer though; there's barely a flat point anywhere on the course.
Last night I did 4 x 1200m at 5k pace. That was about 3:52/km in today's shape, so I'm reasonably happy, but not enough for sub3 in London. I need to decide if I'm going to shoot for 3:05 (London GFA) or 3:10 (Boston).
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Mar 2018
12:35pm, 28 Mar 2018
107 posts
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icenutter
Back on Barry Smyths pacing. It's a surprisingly common thing not to do even splits. The next sentence I'm going to cut and paste in repeatedy, just to avoid people flaming me. I'd not advocate this strategy myself, but it worked ok here:
Daniel Wanjiru 2018
Dist Split Pace %
5K 00:14:12 02:51 -6.6
10K 00:28:52 02:56 -3.8
15K 00:43:41 02:58 -2.7
20K 00:58:31 02:59 -2.2
Half 01:01:43 02:56 -3.8 02:03:26
25K 01:13:10 02:56 -3.8
30K 01:28:21 03:03 0.0
35K 01:43:42 03:05 1.1
40K 01:59:09 03:06 1.6
Finish 02:05:48 03:03
2:03:36 is final time assuming even splits
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Mar 2018
12:36pm, 28 Mar 2018
108 posts
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icenutter
I'd not advocate this strategy myself, but it worked ok here:
James Jewell (last runner under 3h
5K 00:20:51 04:11 -7.7
10K 00:41:48 04:12 -7.4
15K 01:02:53 04:13 -7.0
20K 01:24:01 04:14 -6.6
Half 01:28:34 04:09 -8.5 02:57:08
25K 01:45:02 04:14 -6.6
30K 02:06:12 04:14 -6.6
35K 02:27:40 04:18 -5.1
40K 02:50:03 04:29 -1.1
Finish 02:59:58 04:32
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Mar 2018
12:36pm, 28 Mar 2018
109 posts
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icenutter
I'd not advocate this strategy myself, but it worked ok here:
Steve way, 30th
Split Time min/km Percentage
5K 00:16:35 03:19 -4.8
10K 00:33:35 03:24 -2.4
15K 00:50:38 03:25 -1.9
20K 01:07:51 03:27 -1.0
Half 01:11:37 03:27 -1.0 02:23:14
25K 01:25:21 03:32 1.4
30K 01:43:19 03:36 3.3
35K 02:01:19 03:36 3.3
40K 02:19:13 03:35 2.9
Finish 02:26:52 03:29
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Mar 2018
12:37pm, 28 Mar 2018
110 posts
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icenutter
I'd not advocate this strategy myself, but it worked ok here:
Josh Griffith, first from champ start
Split Time min/km Percentage
5K 00:15:48 03:10 -4.5
10K 00:31:39 03:11 -4.0
15K 00:47:28 03:10 -4.5
20K 01:03:19 03:11 -4.0
Half 01:06:40 03:04 -7.5 02:13:20
25K 01:19:02 03:10 -4.5
30K 01:34:58 03:12 -3.5
35K 01:51:10 03:15 -2.0
40K 02:07:33 03:17 -1.0
Finish 02:14:49 03:19
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Mar 2018
12:51pm, 28 Mar 2018
661 posts
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Little Miss Happy
Not sure I'm getting your point icenutter? Apart from Wanjiru you don't really know what the runners potential is or what they may have achieved in other circumstances or even if (in the case of Wanjiru and Josh especially) they were racing for time or position.
Brunski - knee is holding on, alternately held together with gaffer tape or coaxed into compliance with the application of magic cream:-) Generally (at the moment at least) running doesn't seem to be making it any worse though it did have a bit of a moment about 12 miles into this morning's run. There's no telling when it will go next (walking or running) so I'm just trying to carry on and not fall over this year:-) With the weather being so foul I have only managed a couple of runs over 20 this campaign but I think that it's a bit late now so one more 20 will have to do.
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Mar 2018
1:06pm, 28 Mar 2018
111 posts
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icenutter
Typo corrected. I used the last split as the average by accident.
I'd not advocate this strategy myself, but it worked ok here:
Daniel Wanjiru
Dist Split Pace %
5K 00:14:12 02:51 -4.4
10K 00:28:52 02:56 -1.6
15K 00:43:41 02:58 -0.5
20K 00:58:31 02:59 0.1
Half 01:01:43 02:56 -1.6 02:03:26
25K 01:13:10 02:56 -1.6
30K 01:28:21 03:03 2.3
35K 01:43:42 03:05 3.4
40K 01:59:09 03:06 4.0
Finish 02:05:48 03:03 2.3
Average Pace 02:58
James Jewell (last runner under 3h
5K 00:20:51 04:11 -1.9
10K 00:41:48 04:12 -1.5
15K 01:02:53 04:13 -1.1
20K 01:24:01 04:14 -0.7
Half 01:28:34 04:09 -2.7 02:57:08
25K 01:45:02 04:14 -0.7
30K 02:06:12 04:14 -0.7
35K 02:27:40 04:18 0.8
40K 02:50:03 04:29 5.1
Finish 02:59:58 04:32 6.3
Average Pace 04:15
Steve way, 30th
Split Time min/km Percentage
5K 00:16:35 03:19 -4.7
10K 00:33:35 03:24 -2.3
15K 00:50:38 03:25 -1.8
20K 01:07:51 03:27 -0.9
Half 01:11:37 03:27 -0.9 02:23:14
25K 01:25:21 03:32 1.5
30K 01:43:19 03:36 3.4
35K 02:01:19 03:36 3.4
40K 02:19:13 03:35 3.0
Finish 02:26:52 03:29 0.1
Average Pace 03:28
Josh griffith first from champ start
Split Time min/km Percentage
5K 00:15:48 03:10 -0.9
10K 00:31:39 03:11 -0.4
15K 00:47:28 03:10 -0.9
20K 01:03:19 03:11 -0.4
Half 01:06:40 03:04 -4.0 02:13:20
25K 01:19:02 03:10 -0.9
30K 01:34:58 03:12 0.2
35K 01:51:10 03:15 1.7
40K 02:07:33 03:17 2.8
Finish 02:14:49 03:19 3.8
Average Pace 03:11
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Mar 2018
1:12pm, 28 Mar 2018
112 posts
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icenutter
It's more that (when you have a specific finishing time in mind), because you slow down in the second half, a positive split may be more likely to bring you home on target.
Barry Smyth uses runners that have done at least three London marathons, then takes their pacing strategy from their best time of those. He then makes a leap of faith that this was a good pacing strategy for them. He then calculates an average pacing profile for all those best times.
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Mar 2018
1:32pm, 28 Mar 2018
5 posts
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jomo_richmond
But would you necessarily slow down if you ran it with neg splits as part of your strategy? I have run four marathons with three where I have made the calculation on average time needed for my target and deliberately started off slower and gradually built into my time, thus running the later kms faster than average plan time. It's felt a lot better (and more successful) than the one where I went out at planned pace, got slightly ahead of that at 10-15k in, and gave back time in the last two kms.
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Mar 2018
1:36pm, 28 Mar 2018
6 posts
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jomo_richmond
I am going to bet that the guy you referenced above as the last finisher under 3 hours would have finished with a better time if he had started out, say, 4:20 in the first 5-10km. Obviously everyone is different but I find it hard to argue against the advocates of neg split.
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RW sub3/3.15
Jul 2025