Pro cycling thread
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85 watchers
Oct 2024
2:27pm, 14 Oct 2024
2,657 posts
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MudMeanderer
I wonder if it's a balance of things, built around his ability to go hard for a few minutes. As more focus is placed on aerodynamics, and there is a cubic relationship between power to overcome drag and velocity, so the extra power to produce a gap on the flat is larger and differences between peak sustainable speeds becomes smaller. At the Worlds, Skuijns and Healy held Pog at a constant gap for a while, and more recently we've seen Powless hold off a bunch sprint for 40km (partly helped by a crash, but still). Add in proper fueling and some group two psychology, and the major factor is that punch to create gaps. |
Oct 2024
2:42pm, 14 Oct 2024
17,931 posts
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jda
There’s no way a solo can physically hold off a group other than that the group isn’t working that well together.
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Oct 2024
3:18pm, 14 Oct 2024
25,816 posts
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larkim
That's what perplexes me. Pog has done his long range solo enough times now for the other contenders, who really really do want to win these races, to know that they have to work together, even as a small group of 3 or 4, as any hint that they are working as individuals rather than a collective group means they aren't being effective enough. And yet, he still solos away for the win. I'll be honest, I've not followed the specific races closely enough to really argue the point in any detail, so perhaps there are confounding factors in the recent ones that explain things (e.g. terrain, group dynamics etc). But it just looks / sounds like such an easy tactic to defeat, and yet he makes it work. |
Oct 2024
3:36pm, 14 Oct 2024
46,438 posts
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SPR
Which race are you referring to with drafting? Emilia was the only race where a good group was working but it was a circuit that went up and down with no flat that wouldn't suit a group in wet conditions, even Lipowitz was only pulled back on the last ascent. Lombardia, that was the place everyone would attack and he built a big enough lead and with smaller groups behind resigned to their fate that the was no chance. At the World Championships MVDP would likely have been able to go with Pogacar initially and Evenepoel probably as well if he wasn't at the back. I don't think the attack there was all that brutal initially, however MVDP has no chance going solo with Pogacar on a hilly course so wasn't going to do that, Evenepoel might have if he was in position. Once the gap goes it becomes a thing about who does the work (twas discussed as the race went on). Other riders aren't going to pull for MVDP to beat them in a sprint or Evenepoel to drop them later. And the thing is, on a hilly course the domestiques can't help as much as on flat ones and burn out quicker so. World champs also had no radios and riders not used to riding with each other. Belgium definitely took too long to start riding, Netherlands presumably playing the third favourite game and not sure of if MVDP would work well with a hard tempo. |
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Oct 2024
3:37pm, 14 Oct 2024
2,658 posts
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MudMeanderer
It typically does happen on more undulating terrain where a chase is more tricky (Worlds/Strade/Lombardia). So take the example of where he attacks like this weekend 40km out on a steep climb. He puts about 1min in before about the 4th rider behind joins a group over the top. If Pog can maybe do around 380w (high but not impossible) at a CdA of 0.18m2 (likewise). To close before the end on the flat, the group would need to do about 30w more, a not insignificant amount. Remember these aren't domestiques blowing up to pull him back. They're doing over-unders because they're still trying to have something if it does come back. |
Oct 2024
3:51pm, 14 Oct 2024
4,110 posts
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Big_G
The thing with Lombardia (and others) is that everyone one pretty much knew when he was going to go, but they couldn’t go with him as they would blow up. Evenepoel decided (probably rightly) not to chase and just ride to his level, basically showing he was racing for 2nd at best even at that points, even though he had a great race. The Worlds were different as post race they were all saying Pogacar’s tactics were stupid. Pogacar also said this very openly. But he still won, even though on the last lap he was struggling a bit. But in that instance the other teams and riders didn’t/couldn’t get organised for probably numerous reasons. So Lombardia and the Worlds are different scenarios I think. |
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Oct 2024
7:14pm, 14 Oct 2024
46,442 posts
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SPR
I think the main thing is they still wouldn't have let him get away if they could have helped it but when they say it's stupid they essentially thought he'd be brought back by others without the leaders having to work. Roglic might be going for the Giro next year. “I will choose races where Tadej will not be there” jokes Primoz Roglic in preview of 2025 campaign cyclinguptodate.com Hopefully Vingegaard is back to his best as it seems clear Pogacar is at another level and only he can possibly match that in GTs currently. It will be interesting to see how Milan San Remo and (if he does them), the cobbled classics go. MVDP is a team player so Milan San Remo may still be advantage Alpecin as the top of the last climb can be a defacto finish line for him and then he doesn't work with Pogacar if Philipsen is close as per this year. Flanders, Pogacar already showed the Oude Kwaremont is long enough for him in 2023 but MVDP may also be a better climber now given his WC performance. Would expect MVDP and WVA to still be better in PR but would be interesting seeing him there. |
Oct 2024
11:06am, 25 Oct 2024
6,264 posts
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K5 Gus
One more year of live TdF on terrestial TV, then from 2026-30 will be Eurosport/Discovery exclusively road.cc |
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Oct 2024
11:16am, 25 Oct 2024
25,912 posts
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larkim
My first question therefore is "What on earth with Gary Imlach do with his year now?" He's the best anchor for live sport in the country, and yet only seems to get 1 gig a year! Real shame, and to an extent a side consequence of Ineos losing that "Team GB" appeal which means the connection between the mass British public and pro cycling is a little weaker than it was 5-6 years ago. |
Oct 2024
12:12pm, 25 Oct 2024
24,277 posts
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57.5 Degrees of Pain
It's been a remarkably good free to air product over the years. But the news is not a surprise.
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