Pro cycling thread
1 lurker |
84 watchers
Sep 2023
12:12pm, 12 Sep 2023
20,675 posts
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Chrisull
Kuss has ridden 5 tours in a row in service of Rog and Vingegaard. They have both 1 grand tour to their name this year. I don't think Vingegaard was going all out to win this one, although you'd argue Roglic might have been. I don't see this being a Hinault vs Lemond situation here, they body language was good from all concerned, group hugs after tough stages, my feeling is they're happy to close out a 1-2-3 , win the team and for Kuss to get red.
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Sep 2023
12:22pm, 12 Sep 2023
21,956 posts
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larkim
Does no-one think the lure of being one of a very small group of riders to have won multiple GT in a year is a lure for either PR or JV? This would be a pretty impressive list to be added to, and I can't rule out this being at the back of the mind of either one of the two if they feel they've got good legs one day. I know you shouldn't attack your team leader, but if the prize is worth it? A ruthless sports competitor would do it, wouldn't they? |
Sep 2023
12:25pm, 12 Sep 2023
42,586 posts
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SPR
Cycling is a team sport. This ruthless sports competitor thing doesn't really fit.
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Sep 2023
12:26pm, 12 Sep 2023
42,587 posts
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SPR
Formula 1 is basically an individual sport with a teammate, it's not the same.
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Sep 2023
12:27pm, 12 Sep 2023
21,957 posts
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larkim
And btw I do agree that the body language and the overall team commentary / dynamics does suggest they are more than happy with a Kuss win / 1-2-3 for TJV. I'm just surprised that the usual trope of an elite sports competitor being utterly single-minded isn't on display. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised? |
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Sep 2023
12:31pm, 12 Sep 2023
21,958 posts
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larkim
Cycling is a team sport. This ruthless sports competitor thing doesn't really fit. I don't believe that is universally true. Armstrong for one does not fit that mould. Nor do some more recent riders like Nibali or even Contador. The dual identify of team / individual sport is a complex one in cycling though, 100% agree. No-one remembers which team won the Tour de France, though everyone does remember which individual did it and the team they rode for. There are very few team sports though where the winner is in fact an individual, but the effort is a combination of team and individual with a shared goal. In fact, are there any others like it? I agree F1 is different, but it is closer than most others in the potential dynamics of working "for" your teammate, once there is a clear leader put in place. |
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Sep 2023
12:58pm, 12 Sep 2023
42,588 posts
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SPR
Armstrong maybe but he was just a git full stop. Contador in 2009 was reacting to injustice within his team and that never happened again and not seen anything like that with Nibali. Of course they were generally always the leader TBF but in any case the ruthless sports competitor thing was never about doing stuff to attack your teammates. Of course there can be tensions and if this was Vingegaard and Roglic where the stronger rider was a few secs behind, there might be issues but this is a different dynamic. Jumbo's slogan is all about it being about the team so this is an embodiment of that. The attacking of Pogacar in 2022 was similar as well, with both riders riding in a way where they expected one to profit (wonder if they knew that Roglic was almost done at that point). |
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Sep 2023
12:59pm, 12 Sep 2023
20,676 posts
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Chrisull
Armstrong totally fitted the mold (albeit in a different way)! US Discovery was totally subordinate to him, he only ever rode the Tour de France Grand Tours (after his early days - which included Vuelta - his breakthrough race), the team observed his Omerta on drugs, Hamilton, Heras, Leipheimer and Hincapie as very loyal lieutenants riding themselves into the ground for him.
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Sep 2023
1:06pm, 12 Sep 2023
42,589 posts
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SPR
But they rode themselves into the ground for him because he was strongest. It's the 2009 actions that clearly show him that way as he wasn't strongest but was doing all he could to undermine the strongest rider on the team and not just during the race either, he was doing it in the lead up to the race.
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Sep 2023
1:50pm, 12 Sep 2023
5,889 posts
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K5 Gus
Jerome Pineau accuses Kuss and TJV of mechanical doping road.cc |
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