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Sep 2023
2:16pm, 9 Sep 2023
14,351 posts
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Dave W
Jumbo would really go up in my estimation (as people, not as a team, because they are already very very good) if both JVing and PRog put on their "SuperDomesique" underpants and went to work for Kuss, who has helped both of them to Grand Tour titles. Then that would show them as people who care for other teammates, and not just the single minded, robotic, somewhat selfish people that they seem to be sometimes. I realise that to be the best, like they are, you might have to have that streak of selfishness, but they've got an ideal opportunity to really repay someone who has helped them enormously.
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Sep 2023
2:43pm, 9 Sep 2023
21,943 posts
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larkim
It's certainly an interesting dynamic, and maybe "form" will be the decider. But if either of them take the title from Kuss without him really "gifting" it to them then it may leave some bad blood between their best superdom and themselves as team leaders in the future.
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Sep 2023
3:00pm, 9 Sep 2023
42,553 posts
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SPR
There is no reason for Roglic and Vingegaard to be doing some duties.
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Sep 2023
3:01pm, 9 Sep 2023
42,554 posts
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SPR
Also selfish robotic is silly. Doing their job is what they do and both have helped teammates in the past when that was more their role.
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Sep 2023
3:15pm, 9 Sep 2023
21,944 posts
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larkim
Other than team dynamics. It's pretty clear that based on form at the moment there is no reason other than status for PR or JV to take the red from Kuss. Imagine if the position were PR, SK, JV in 1-2-3. We'd be saying all TJV need to do is protect PR to the finish, and if on one stage that required SK to sacrifice himself in a defensive ride one day it would make sense.
I don't see why SK now shouldn't get that same highly protected position and the other two be relegated to supporting roles, with the opportunity to take the lead if SK falters in a very significant way.
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Sep 2023
3:17pm, 9 Sep 2023
42,555 posts
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SPR
They don't need to sacrifice anyone though. Also if Kuss did an Evenepoel, there would be absolutely no point anyone riding for him.
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Sep 2023
3:31pm, 9 Sep 2023
21,945 posts
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larkim
They don't need to, but "circumstances" might make it necessary. Some long mechanical issue, a crash requiring a long ride back, an unexpectedly successful attack by one of the Spanish riders behind in the classification. Something could happen that in a "normal" world would see Kuss supporting his team leader to recover the position and him lose time as a consequence.
It could happen, and if such a situation arise my heart would want Kuss to be afforded full team leader privileges from this point onwards.
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Sep 2023
3:58pm, 9 Sep 2023
42,556 posts
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SPR
They aren't going to sacrifice the race to get Kuss the win and no team would. They're 1-2-3 so anything that's a serious danger to Kuss is a danger to them winning full stop.
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Sep 2023
4:00pm, 9 Sep 2023
14,353 posts
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Dave W
WTF is wrong with‘selfish and robotic’. That’s how they sometimes come across. And whilst they might occasionally help others, sometimes they don’t help even when they could (I’m thinking of JVing not helping WVA win the stage at the TdF) And I wouldn’t expect them to throw away their own chances of winning but they could help him win without doing that. As I said as a team for Winning they are unbeatable at moment.
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Sep 2023
4:03pm, 9 Sep 2023
42,557 posts
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SPR
I'm not saying they won't help him at any point but there's a balance between that and sacrificing the race. Closing a gap behind the convoy seems sensible for example, all three being behind the GC peloton by 5 mins isn't.
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So who won the tour from 1999 to 2005
May 2024