3:55pm
3:55pm, 8 Oct 2024
23,180 posts
|
rf_fozzy
Final post on this: Chrisull wrote: We've already it seen it is true, solely in that it acts an inhibitor (or disincentive, maybe a better choice of words by me was needed) - because - wrongly - students perceive it as a debt Yes, in the last few years this is true - because the messaging around Student "loans" is awful. But compare how many more people are now able to go to University in the age of tuition fees and how many people went to University in the age of grants and university paid for solely (well OK not really) by taxation. In particular, look at how many more students from disadvantaged backgrounds go to university now compared to in the 1970/80s. The change in funding method is *part* of why this was possible. |
4:00pm
4:00pm, 8 Oct 2024
70,210 posts
|
LindsD
I think most parents aren't aware that the system is intended for them to contribute. Also - small but important point - the current loan/interest terminology is problematic/a barrier to Muslim students because interest is haram. |
4:03pm
4:03pm, 8 Oct 2024
25,767 posts
|
larkim
I agree with you about the STEM vs non STEM course costs and whether they should be equally "priced". Just making the point that there are big differentials (part of my job involves running an HE operation from a finance perspective!) It is, ultimately, a graduate tax. There's no getting away from that. It's an unusual tax as *some* (few) parents pay that tax up front to avoid their offspring having to find it later in life, or avoid chunks of it by making bigger contributions to the maintenance aspect (it only dawned on us as parents after the event, and after the recent high interest rates, that it would probably have made sense to have paid more maintenance out of our own pockets for our son, to avoid the interest on it, if we could have afforded it). But as Martin Lewis advises, parents need to remember that no matter how responsible they feel for their child's future, the cost of Uni is ultimately their lifetime cost, not yours. But so many parents don't understand the system at all, or assume it is constructed logically. Or that it remains the same as it was "in our day". And it's complicated by the fact that there have been several different iterations of the payback mechanisms depending on when the student started. |
|
4:12pm
4:12pm, 8 Oct 2024
23,181 posts
|
rf_fozzy
It has been further complicated that certain governments have changed the terms and conditions of the loans system *after they have graduated* - which is utterly ridiculous.
|
|
4:15pm
4:15pm, 8 Oct 2024
23,182 posts
|
rf_fozzy
LindsD wrote: I think most parents aren't aware that the system is intended for them to contribute. Also - small but important point - the current loan/interest terminology is problematic/a barrier to Muslim students because interest is haram. Interesting - I didn't know this about Islamic students. Yes, that could be problematic. But only if they stick to Sharia law I imagine. The simple solution for all would be to accept it's a graduate tax and move to that system where all graduates pay x% over £y/per annum for z years on top of income tax. What x, y and z need to be, I'll let the experts tell me. But that would be an even fairer and more transparent system than the one we have now. |
4:27pm
4:27pm, 8 Oct 2024
22,230 posts
|
Chrisull
Yeah agree with fozzy's last one - a graduate tax over however many years, would be better system (no worrying about interest rates then either) which could have been adopted at the time. I'd point to Germany as my preferred system, but it's nothing something you can immediately transplant to the UK, it arose out of Germany's unique circumstances: theconversation.com and of course it certainly ain't perfect: sciencebusiness.net |
|
4:35pm
4:35pm, 8 Oct 2024
23,183 posts
|
rf_fozzy
Without comment on their student fees (I'll read the links later), it is worth noting that German academia is worse for conditions and often (unless you have tenure) even less secure than it is in the UK. Several colleagues from Germany have stated that the UK system is better (although not by much) |
4:37pm
4:37pm, 8 Oct 2024
32,880 posts
|
macca 53
One possibility (if relationships with the EU improve) would be the possibility of studying at an EU Uni, almost free in most countries, with many courses, especially in the Netherlands and Germany, taught entirely in English. I realise this doesn’t immediately help UK Universities but it might prompt a radical reappraisal of how tertiary education is funded and delivered.
|
|
4:40pm
4:40pm, 8 Oct 2024
25,768 posts
|
larkim
At the moment the free or cheap European unis are only available to EU / EEA students. Another Brexit bonus!! study.eu |
|
4:44pm
4:44pm, 8 Oct 2024
32,881 posts
|
macca 53
[hence my “if relationships improve” rider 😉. It does seem that our neighbours want it more than “we” do atm though]
|
Useful Links
FE accepts no responsibility for external links. Or anything, really.Related Threads
-
Fantasy General Election
Jul 2024
-
EU Referendum - In or Out? Vote here
Aug 2018
-
March to Parliament Against Brexit - Sat 2nd July
Jun 2016
-
EU Referendum
Feb 2016
-
Ads on Fetch - anyone else getting Leave and Remain?!
Feb 2017
-
The Environment Thread :-)
Oct 2024
-
Economics
Aug 2023
-
Dear Scottish Fetchies
Jan 2023
-
Any economists out there - question
Oct 2022
-
Power and exploitation - please check my sanity
Oct 2018
