3 Sep
2:09pm, 3 Sep 2024
50,836 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
We got rebanded (doubled our council tax) after we bought house from previous owners. They'd done lots of extensions and never paid extra council tax, but when we bought they re-evaluated. I thought that happened automatically if a house was sold/bought? Anyway, yes, stupid tax, but there should be some kind of wealth tax, as well as income tax, imho. There are lots of very rich people, who can hide their income and have huge assets. Taxing assets is of course effectively confiscation, but I have no problem with that!  G
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3 Sep
2:12pm, 3 Sep 2024
33,029 posts
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Johnny Blaze
We used to have rates. Council rates. Then the poll tax/community charge, which somewhat *did* for Maggie Thatcher as it evidenced her increasing level of power crazed behaviour It's a high risk game changing local taxes, it seems to me, and likely to be hellishly complicated and politically dangerous. Which is why nobody has poked that particular bear for a long time now. Can't see that changing myself. |
3 Sep
2:15pm, 3 Sep 2024
4,434 posts
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Cheg
What do we mean the bandings haven't been redrawn? In the example of Kensington and Chelsea we have Bands A-H ranging from £1,005.99 in band A to £3,017.96 in Band H. The bands are based on the value of your home in 1991. That date really doesn't matter. If it is £100k for Band A and £1m for Band H. You still pay £1,005 and £3,017. We can update those to 2024 figures and it is 500k for Band A and £5m for Band H the council tax payments remain the same. Here is how they value new properties valuationoffice.blog.gov.uk Not quite sure what has happened here though: Flat 17, Canon House 10-11, Bruckner Street, London, W10 4BF recently sold for £319,795 and is in Band E so they pay £1,844.31 (0.57% of property value a year). Flat 3rd Floor at 47, Ossington Street, London W2 4LY recently sold for £905,500 and is Band E so they pay £1,844.31 (0.20% of property value a year) |
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3 Sep
2:16pm, 3 Sep 2024
33,030 posts
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Johnny Blaze
Thatcher was fiercely committed to a new tax—commonly called the "poll tax"—that would apply in equal amounts to rich and poor alike, despite intense public opposition. Her inability to compromise undermined her leadership in the Conservative Party, which turned decisively against her. Thatcher sought to relieve what she considered the unfair burden of property tax on the property-owning section of the population and outlined a fundamental solution as her flagship policy in the Conservative manifesto for the 1987 election. Local government rates (taxes) were replaced by the community charge, popularly known as the "poll tax", which levied a flat rate on all adult residents. Almost every adult, irrespective of income or wealth, paid the same, which would heavily redistribute the tax burden onto the less well-off. She defended the poll tax, firstly, on the principle of marginality, that all voters should bear the burden of extra spending by local councils; secondly, on the benefit principle, that burdens should be proportional to benefits received. Ministers disregarded political research which showed potential massive losses for marginal Conservative-voting households. The poll tax was introduced in Scotland in 1989 and England and Wales in 1990. This highly visible redistribution of the tax burden onto the less well-off proved to be one of the most controversial policies of Thatcher's premiership. Additional problems emerged when many of the tax rates set by local councils proved to be much higher than earlier predicted. Opponents organised to resist bailiffs and disrupt court hearings of community charge debtors. One Labour MP, Terry Fields, was jailed for 60 days for refusing to pay. |
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3 Sep
2:17pm, 3 Sep 2024
33,031 posts
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Johnny Blaze
An indication of the unpopularity of the policy was given by a Gallup poll in March 1990 that put Labour 18.5 points ahead. As the crisis deepened and the Prime Minister stood her ground, opponents claimed that up to 18 million people were refusing to pay. Enforcement measures became increasingly draconian. Unrest mounted and culminated in a number of riots. The most serious of these happened on 31 March 1990, during a protest at Trafalgar Square, London. More than 100,000 protesters attended and more than 400 people were arrested. For younger readers. It pretty much did for Maggie after 3 election victories. Silly Mags! |
3 Sep
2:20pm, 3 Sep 2024
6,344 posts
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paulcook
From here: ifs.org.uk Council tax bands in England are still based on property values in April 1991 – almost 30 years ago. Since then the relative prices of different properties have changed significantly: for example, official estimates suggest the average price in London is now more than six times what it was in 1995, compared with barely three times in the North East. Moreover, the most valuable properties in 1991 (Band H) attract just three times as much tax as the least valuable properties (Band A), despite being worth at least eight times as much in 1991 and typically even more now, since prices have risen most in areas where they were already highest. Council tax is therefore both increasingly out of date and arbitrary, and highly regressive with respect to property values. It is ripe for reform. |
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3 Sep
2:22pm, 3 Sep 2024
33,032 posts
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Johnny Blaze
I don't doubt that someone will eventually grasp the nettle and do some tinkering, but replace it altogether? That would take a brave person to do that.
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3 Sep
2:33pm, 3 Sep 2024
22,965 posts
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rf_fozzy
It is broken - it was broken when they introduced it - it was a stopgap measure after the collapse of the poll tax and was meant to be overhauled in the short term - the valuation based on 1991 values was never meant to be more than a stopgap measure. The stupidity of it is highlighted by the fact that a new build in a new estate (or even new town) has to have a council tax band, yet the house, estate and possibly town didn't exist in 1991 - thus any valuation is arbitary. Then there's the fact that London and SE house prices have increased significantly in the past 30 years, many more times than those in the NE for example, so there are very expensive houses in London paying less council tax than 3 bed semis in Hartlepool. Anyone still think it's working? Everyone knows it's broken, but of course any overhaul or new system is going to create winners and losers. And the losers are going to be vocal, thus it is guaranteed to be unpopular, so no-one will politically touch it with a bargepole, but the longer they kick the can down the road, the less proportionate the system gets and the bigger the winners and losers are going to be.....and so we delay it further etc etc etc. |
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3 Sep
2:39pm, 3 Sep 2024
33,033 posts
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Johnny Blaze
Yes, I agree, in a 3 dimensional Boston Box of Complexity, Cost and Political Risk it's in the "Super-Dog" category. High complexity, high cost and high political risk. Complexity that does not create political value will be de-prioritised. |
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3 Sep
2:40pm, 3 Sep 2024
4,435 posts
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Cheg
I could lose my afternoon in this. 5 Bed place in Hartlepool 7, ST BEGAS GLADE, HARTLEPOOL, CLEVELAND, TS26 0FB Sold £510k. Council tax of £2,806.82 in Band G compared to our £905k flat in London above with £1,844.31. |
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