24 Jul
11:58am, 24 Jul 2024
157 posts
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Yakima Canutt
Child benefit is automatically clawed back from a base of household income exceeding £60kpa(?) so there is already a form of means testing (though it also contributes to creating some painful effective tax rates at that level if you think of CB as a tax credit).
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24 Jul
12:01pm, 24 Jul 2024
25,285 posts
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larkim
SPR wrote: We don't treat politics like a normal work place and also when Tories vote for things we think are wrong, we aren't quick to shout about collective responsibility and say they should use their conscience. Those on the payroll should vote with the government, others should have more latitude. In reality this has happened because the majority is so big it really makes no difference or than signals around being tough etc. Not sure that's entirely a fair analogy - have we ever seen any Tory rebel within days of the election? If we were 3-4 years into this term, voting on an issue which was not explicitly linked to manifesto commitments, I would have sympathy with that perspective. The 40+ that abstained pushed the envelope far enough and made their voices heard. |
24 Jul
12:01pm, 24 Jul 2024
45,407 posts
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SPR
This is the threshold thing as of April this year: bbc.co.uk
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24 Jul
12:05pm, 24 Jul 2024
45,408 posts
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SPR
@larkim I'm pretty sure most of us would have applauded any Tory MP that voted against austerity. This could have been ignored easily, it's a choice not to but I don't think it's a surprising one from Starmer.
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24 Jul
12:13pm, 24 Jul 2024
22,745 posts
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rf_fozzy
I think in this case, it's an issue of parl procedure, rather than the actual issue. And we should not think about treating it solely as the latter. The SNP were playing politics and everyone knows it. Fair enough, with 9 MPs left, they've got to try and make some noise somehow. To be honest, I think the suspended MPs sort of fell into the SNPs trap. And although I think the punishment is harsh, I suspect the reasoning is that the party leadership doesn't want an ERG-like running battle over every issue. I strongly suspect that room will be found in the budget in the autumn for this - which of course would be the proper place for a budgetary issue. Which was always likely to happen. |
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24 Jul
12:14pm, 24 Jul 2024
25,286 posts
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larkim
I'm sure we would have. Doesn't mean we also would have criticised Cameron or whoever for taking disciplinary action against them if they had done, especially in 2010 when the manifestos effectively got ripped up because the coalition emerged. |
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24 Jul
12:15pm, 24 Jul 2024
22,746 posts
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rf_fozzy
That said, I still wish it had been in the manifesto and they could have repealed it today But that was also an unlikely hope on my part - not because of the politicians leading labour (although some will say that), but because of the mess they've been left. |
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24 Jul
12:21pm, 24 Jul 2024
22,747 posts
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rf_fozzy
It's also worth pointing out that the SNP amendment to the king's speech in itself would not have lifted the 2C cap. It would require a budgetary statement or a separate act I believe. So, from a virtue signaling point of view, it's important. From the point of view of actually doing something, not at all important. |
24 Jul
12:31pm, 24 Jul 2024
5,538 posts
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J2R
To be clear, I don't think the rebel MPs were right in what they did, just that the punishment was excessively harsh.
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24 Jul
12:32pm, 24 Jul 2024
45,410 posts
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SPR
I think we all criticised the Boris Johnson purge of the Tories. I think it's clear that it is harsh and isn't really necessary. I expect it has no effect in the long run. If an issue becomes big enough for a big rebellion then, numbers will mean the party has to change course. Of course the size of the majority means that the rebellion has to be pretty large. Accept that other courses of action were available to the MPs but they have also campaigned locally in certain ways which may mean that this is consistent with that. I wouldn't expect every Tory MP to support the Rwanda plan if the Tories had won for example. |
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