16 Jul
5:45pm, 16 Jul 2024
5,478 posts
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J2R
Ahem! Blair? Campbell?
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16 Jul
5:59pm, 16 Jul 2024
11,486 posts
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Fields
Who was the last person to mention Blair on this thread before you? And Campbell? |
16 Jul
6:10pm, 16 Jul 2024
21,958 posts
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Chrisull
Must admit I'm quite annoyed with the left atm. We have a historic opportunity and some encouraging signs. It is the only opportunity probably in our lifetimes to see some decent progressive stuff getting done, where a govt of the left plus progressives command 500+ seats. Gaza is terrible, but really we ain't stopping Netanyahu. I suspect the backtracking on that is political manoeuvring knowing that we may well be dealing with Trump and the Republicans who are so pro Israel you have to swear an oath of allegiance to them if you work in public services in the US in particularly MAGA states: middleeastmonitor.com At this point in time its posturing banning weapon sales etc. Ain't gonna stop the genocidal madman. Biden is probably the one hope of stopping him. Meanwhile, real change has to be made on climate otherwise this planet will become very quickly uninhabitable. I think Labour have plenty of awful policies on PFI/Blackrock and I'd rather efforts were made on this front, so we don't end up with yet more white elephants like Walsgrave Hospital or the gentrification of the Southampton districts, or the Isle of Skye tolls with debts that will last decades (see Monbiot's Captive state book for more details on all the above). Except it will be on solar farms and wind farms owned by some awful private mega-prise, so that electricity costs 5 times oil and can never break even. That we might be able to change. It's funny that Owen Jones decries everything whereas he joined the Labour party was it 18 years ago? I'd already left because of Iraq, and yet he joined a party that had conducted itself and was still conducting itself abysmally in Iraq and Afghanistan. That must mean I'm further left than Owen? OR more likely he's a total idiot defending an indefensible position. I mention it, not because I seriously think it I'm further left than him, but because on the left there is ALWAYS someone purer than thou. There will be a hermit in a cave who left the Labour party one day after they formed because of their stance on the Boer war or whatever I'm sure. Meanwhile I came across something on Twitter where the left were moaning about Ukraine having streets named after Nazis and that was an entire reason why they should capitulate to Putin. **Bangs head against wall repeatedly** PS I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this. |
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16 Jul
6:18pm, 16 Jul 2024
5,479 posts
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J2R
My apologies, @Fields , I was pretty sure you had talked about Blair and Campbell. But if you say you haven't, that's good enough for me.
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16 Jul
6:23pm, 16 Jul 2024
11,487 posts
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Fields
Not today I haven’t
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16 Jul
6:28pm, 16 Jul 2024
5,480 posts
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J2R
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16 Jul
6:29pm, 16 Jul 2024
11,488 posts
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Fields
Your mistake Chris is thinking Labour is a party of the left When the Labour foreign secretary calls Vance “my friend” you have to question who Labour represent! See also their determination to be tougher on welfare and immigration than the tories. Ukraine having streets named after Nazis is not surprising and you have to question why this hasn’t been seen as a priority for a supposedly democratic nation. I am prepared to give them a pass since the conflict began in 2022 but not before. That said the west was very happy to welcome Nazis into their system post 1945 so are just as culpable, and gave a pass to all the middle ranking Nazis which is a huge betrayal to the millions slaughtered in the camps. There’s a good example of anti-semitism being glossed over. |
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16 Jul
6:42pm, 16 Jul 2024
5,481 posts
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J2R
Fields wrote: Your mistake Chris is thinking Labour is a party of the left When the Labour foreign secretary calls Vance “my friend” you have to question who Labour represent! Whether we like it or not, we're going to have to work with what we're given in America. It's the same reason, shorter term, why Starmer refused to be drawn on the question of Biden's mental capacity. To indicate he thought Biden was losing it would have caused a major diplomatic incident, to no benefit of anybody Fields wrote: See also their determination to be tougher on welfare and immigration than the tories. Well, let's see if this continues now they're in power. There were things they didn't want to make an issue of in the run-up to an election, knowing how the right wing press would weaponise them. We're past that now. |
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16 Jul
6:49pm, 16 Jul 2024
21,959 posts
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Chrisull
Labour are mildly social democratic and on the only "objective" measurement scales I've seen (using policies not people's perceptions), last time I looked they registered as on the left. Can't find the link now (sigh). Starmer measured to the left of Blair on policies announced. |
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16 Jul
7:20pm, 16 Jul 2024
11,489 posts
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Fields
Chrisull wrote: Starmer measured to the left of Blair on policies announced. I’m not sure that really means much. |
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