Nov 2023
3:52pm, 2 Nov 2023
48,314 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
AJLB, hope it's OK to ask this surely for example Catholicism not allowing conraception, abortion or homosexual relationships are examples of non-political, entirely religion driven intolerance leading to harm against others, often minorities and those in vulnerable position? Hope it's OK to discuss and debate this? |
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Nov 2023
3:55pm, 2 Nov 2023
48,315 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
And usual disclaimers- not having a go at Catholicism particularly, just an example. Other examples might be Islam and some extreme restrictions on women. Very nervous discussing this, but hoping that if all done politely and with respect should be OK?  G
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Nov 2023
4:01pm, 2 Nov 2023
43,167 posts
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SPR
I think I agree, but the point is the harm comes from via the tool that is used to control, so the way to control and cause harm with the religious view is via the political system in most cases.
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Nov 2023
4:05pm, 2 Nov 2023
48,316 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
So where the religion is embedded in the state or government then yes. But my Catholicism example, those in that church, with strongest feelings, will harass people outside abortion clinics or openly be homophobic, based purely on the religious justification, not any state or political affiliation?
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Nov 2023
4:06pm, 2 Nov 2023
48,317 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Don't know if AJLB AJLB planned to hang around to receive my noddy questions! G
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Nov 2023
4:11pm, 2 Nov 2023
43,168 posts
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SPR
True, I think that falls under protesting and they are generally trying to apply political pressure. Religion doesn't have to be embedded (explicitly) to have influence though. America is proof of this. |
Nov 2023
4:41pm, 2 Nov 2023
4,135 posts
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Cheg
It’s like politics that you don’t have to take every element of your chosen religion or political party. I was raised catholic. Only go back now to take my twin girls occasionally to keep my mum happy. Wiki tells me that a high percentage of catholics in America use contraception. I’ll take the love one another, be kind, don’t kill and leave the rest. |
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Nov 2023
4:45pm, 2 Nov 2023
4,136 posts
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Cheg
If you are motivated enough to go and protest at abortion clinics I think you’d go regardless of religion. I’m pro choice, but I understand every life is precious and legally. We take that as 24 weeks. With advances in medicine I think they’ll review that. |
Nov 2023
4:54pm, 2 Nov 2023
22,504 posts
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larkim
The point missed about Catholicism though is that I don't think you'd ever find the Pope (certainly not the current iteration) standing outside an abortion clinic decrying the activities of the women and the staff. Nor would he be openly homophobic. What those further down the hierarchy do isn't always aligned with what the religion actually preaches. And I'd also suggest that the evangelical Christian right wing in the US are the ones far more likely to cause unpleasant protests than Catholics generally (though I wouldn't excuse organisations like SPUC in the UK from their more low level behaviours which, improperly, attempt to manipulate women and make them feel highly uncomfortable about the choices they are making). On abortion, for example. Modern society tends to view birth (or a few weeks before that due to medical viability) as being the time when life becomes so precious that laws are in place to protect it. Before that, the widely accepted consensus these days is that the foetus and the mother are so inextricably linked that they are one in the same, hence a woman has the right to choose. Catholicism, however, doesn't see this. It treats the foetus as a separate human life form, and therefore opposes killing it. There's no overt religious justification for that, it's just a different starting point on the definition of life. Catholicism really isn't as obsessed with these issues as non-Catholics think they are. At least, not this century. And from my experience the level of tolerance by most Catholics is at least equal to the level of tolerance in the wider UK society, in some ways more-so. Everything we know about "Jesus" seems to imply to me that being pleasant to one another, being forgiving and understanding, would mean that were he to be around today he would be the last person to be on an anti-abortion demonstration, or haranguing someone for their bedroom and romantic choices. |
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Nov 2023
4:59pm, 2 Nov 2023
43,171 posts
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SPR
The motivation comes from the the beliefs though. Obviously not every religious person is going to be like that but those that are, aren't turning up in spite of their religion.
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