Nov 2023
12:18pm, 1 Nov 2023
48,287 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
And I suppose, to a certain extent, what happened before is less relevant than what the current generations want for their future. Acknowledge and accept the past, but then move forward in a new way to the future. Northern Ireland has (just about) managed it. Just so sad and shocking seeing all these children and young people and innocent civilians maimed and killed.
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Nov 2023
12:25pm, 1 Nov 2023
20,816 posts
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Chrisull
The podcast Empire hosted by William Dalyrymple and Anita Anand has an episode "The Balfour Declaration" of 1917 and that's a really good place for a quick overview of where the current problems stem from - and how Christian Zionists definitely burden some of the responsibility, and where the British government first accepted the premise of the need for a homeland for the Jewish people, even though Jewish people themselves were at the very least divided then on the need, if not downright disinterested. But hey bible bashers knew better?
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Nov 2023
12:32pm, 1 Nov 2023
21,038 posts
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rf_fozzy
Happy, yes that's the better argument. How do we build from where we are, based on two entrenched positions The history can be insightful but also unhelpful. See Chris' post. If we're going to look at the history, where do we stop? Should we go back to the crusades? Or further? Its all important and yet also unimportant as to me, it's just trying to find someone to blame and that's unhelpful. The history is only of use if it helps move forward. Not sure it does here. And that's why I won't speculate or discuss the ongoing situation in the middle East as it's highly complex and an absolute tragedy all at the same time. |
Nov 2023
1:10pm, 1 Nov 2023
4,800 posts
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J2R
I found this article very interesting about the origins of Israel: archive.ph It is absolutely excoriating about the Left's (wholly incorrect, in the eyes of the author) viewing of the situation as simply a colonial powers one. TL;DR - it's complicated. Food for thought. |
Nov 2023
1:14pm, 1 Nov 2023
48,288 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
I should probably read something that challenge's my (left!) suspicion that the creation of the state of Israel in both the form and the way in which it happened was a mistake, and that all the violence and damage since has stemmed from it.
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Nov 2023
1:18pm, 1 Nov 2023
4,390 posts
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Ally-C
Just so sad and shocking seeing all these children and young people and innocent civilians maimed and killed. This happened in spades well before October 7th. 172 Palestinians in the West Bank alone from January to August. 34 children killed by Israeli fire there in 2022. |
Nov 2023
1:21pm, 1 Nov 2023
20,817 posts
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Chrisull
fozzy - I'm all for dunking on the Tories in 1917 tho - but yes not sure it helps us move beyond.
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Nov 2023
2:42pm, 1 Nov 2023
4,131 posts
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Cheg
I'm not happy with the term bible basher. What are we 12?
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Nov 2023
10:00pm, 1 Nov 2023
14,896 posts
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Dave W
Johnson asked scientists about ‘special hairdryer to kill Covid’, says Cummings Right up there with injecting bleach. You couldn’t make this shit up. Wrong person. Wrong place. I hope the people that voted for him are so proud. |
Nov 2023
10:08pm, 1 Nov 2023
366 posts
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5km_is_plenty
Johnson asked scientists about ‘special hairdryer to kill Covid’, says Cummings Right up there with injecting bleach. You couldn’t make this shit up. Wrong person. Wrong place. I hope the people that voted for him are so proud. The guy (Johnson) makes an amoeba look intelligent. |
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