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Aug 2023
12:29pm, 22 Aug 2023
2,788 posts
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Big_G
Although she had the opportunity and means, I wonder what her motive was, because as has been said she doesn’t appear to have had anything to gain from her actions. Happy G seems to be tentatively suggesting there was possibly a cry for help that was ignored but surely that can’t be a reason for her actions, especially with her not guilty plea. I think people are trying to find reasons behind her actions (her motive) and are possibly trying to partially lay blame somewhere (lack of support), which although understandable, I think misses the mark a bit with cases such as this. Horrific story regardless.
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Aug 2023
12:36pm, 22 Aug 2023
15,350 posts
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jda
Shipman didn’t gain anything either did he? Nor Hindley and Brady. Which doesn’t mean they all had the same motivations.
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Aug 2023
12:43pm, 22 Aug 2023
2,790 posts
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Big_G
No, exactly. That’s what I meant JDA. There is no motive that would offer a suitable explanation, and I think thoughts of her possibly not enough support etc, even if true, don’t provide an explanation for what she did.
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Aug 2023
2:25pm, 22 Aug 2023
21,794 posts
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larkim
Shipman got himself written into the will of his final victim I believe. But said nothing else about motives etc.
I don't think too many people do have an issue with considering her to be a murderer Fields, whether she is white, middle class etc or not. I've certainly not seen that train of thought running through media coverage. In fact, from the moment she was arrested I think most thought she was guilty on the basis that the police wouldn't create such a high profile arrest (it was pretty well publicised at the time, certainly in our local news) without good cause.
To have continued doing the killings after the alarms were being raised definitely shows some significant lack of rational thinking, though she was probably deluded that having "got away with it" she could then continue, for whatever motivations she had. I hope we get to understand them properly one day, even if we find it abhorrent. But we need to understand people like her to aid detection, albeit that they only come around infrequently.
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Aug 2023
3:28pm, 22 Aug 2023
20,639 posts
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Chrisull
G - If she didn't murder them, who did? I don't think anyone is arguing this is *all* down to an incompetent unit (with a normal death rate until Letby arrived).
It's evident from the pairs of twins that killed or nearly killed, the first one was the murder of one and attempted murder of the second, this was an intentional homicidal act. The twins were regarded as healthy, the examinations determined one had air injected into his bloodstream and the second had insulin put into the drip. Are they mistaken? She did exactly the same with another pair of twins who survived (again one with oxygen, one with the insulin again - same modus operandi) Are they mistaken again?? The witnesses to the second described how she became "angry and frustrated" when the first one survived. The triplets were also regarded as healthy, and yet two died suddenly.
I know it harks back to shaken baby syndrome where at least one babysitter was wrongly convicted on the strength of an expert witness, but this isn't the case here, this is multiple deaths and near misses, with multiple differing doctors and nurses involved.
I'm not sure anyone can say 100% certainty with the absence of a clear motive or footage capturing someone in the act they are sure. But there are plenty of other cases like this, where you have to taken it on the balance of evidence presented.
There is a written confession "I killed them on purpose" which can't really be interpreted in any other way. When I was a kid I'd done something wrong to someone else and hurt them, my parent's first question "did you do it on purpose?" I'm not seeing someone accused of someone of the worst crimes this century screaming "I did not do it, I am innocent". I'd be spending every second going "I am innocent" and looking to defend myself. The lead investigator seems to think its Munchausen's syndrome and that the notes were deliberately left so she would be discovered.
But I do agree with fields, and I don't think he was intentionally slurring you. We are conditioned to think this way. Ask all of ourselves if the nurse was a) male and b) black, would we honestly have the same doubts?
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Aug 2023
3:39pm, 22 Aug 2023
22,989 posts
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richmac
I've never had a doubt TBH the evidence has been to strong.
Her motivation? she enjoyed it and enjoyed getting away with it. Is she mentally ill or just thinks differently ? The definition of mental illness, as stated is huge, but clearly Letby was able function in society & no one seems to have raised any MH concerns about her.
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Aug 2023
4:42pm, 22 Aug 2023
3,210 posts
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Fellrunning
I think the trap that everyone falls into in these cases is making it all about the perpetrator.
In not coming to court to be sentences this individual (and I refuse to name them explicitly) once again managed to focus all the attention on them, and once again the media and politicians lapped it up.
One thing that had always upset me about people like the Moors Murderers has been that it's ALWAYS about them. If the victims are ever mentioned it's almost as if they are bit players in the perpetrators puppet show.
It's worse here because the victims were anonomised. So we are left with "Baby n".
What needs to happen now is a full enquiry in to the clusterfuck management cock up that allowed this to continue long after warning bells had been sounded. Where do they find these halfwits and why do they always fail upwards.??
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Aug 2023
4:53pm, 22 Aug 2023
47,559 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
"Ask all of ourselves if the nurse was a) male and b) black, would we honestly have the same doubts?"
Yes.
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Aug 2023
5:34pm, 22 Aug 2023
15,356 posts
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jda
Because the priority is reputation rather than patients.
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Aug 2023
5:40pm, 22 Aug 2023
22,996 posts
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richmac
As I said before I'm pretty sure we've all seen managers in organisations we've worked at act in similar ways. I know I have
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Fantasy General Election
Jul 2024
