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Aug 2023
9:23am, 22 Aug 2023
42,333 posts
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SPR
I'm confused by your confusion HappyG. What is the doubt in the evidence you've read?
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Aug 2023
9:29am, 22 Aug 2023
2,686 posts
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Canute
Defining mental illness is a complex challenge. The mind and brain are two sides of one coin. The brain is the most complex organ in the human body. One somewhat useful concept is that mental illness reflects a transient disturbance of mind and brain, during which the person is ‘not their usual self’. In contrast personality disorder reflects a long-term pattern of harmful mental (and brain) function. This conceptual approach has the pragmatic value that people who commit crimes when they are ‘not their usual self’ require treatment while those with persistent personality disorder require incarceration.
However, this concept is over-simplistic. Even episodic illnesses often arise against a background of persisting patterns on unhelpful mental activity. Conversely, personality characteristics based on long term patterns of brain activity are now considered to more malleable than previously believed.
It seems to me that the correct conclusion is that where a serious crime is strongly influenced by an episode of illness, the focus should be on treatment, though detention in hospital, perhaps even a secure hospital, might be necessary. When a serious crime appears arises in the setting of a long term abnormality of personality, detention in prison is usually appropriate, but all prison routines should be designed with a therapeutic goal. This is not only humane, but in the case of the vast majority of individuals who will eventually be released, this offers the best hope of low recidivism and therefore, might offer the best value for society.
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Aug 2023
10:13am, 22 Aug 2023
47,550 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Thank you as always for a considered and thoughtful response Canute.
SPR, I have no special insight. Just a nagging doubt that this isn't the whole story. I am going to stop watching and reading it though, as I really don't want any more exposure. It's horrific and I can't imagine the suffering of the families and of the babies themselves. It's making me feel ill just thinking about it.
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Aug 2023
11:16am, 22 Aug 2023
42,336 posts
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SPR
Nagging doubt based on what though?
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Aug 2023
11:21am, 22 Aug 2023
9,841 posts
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Fields
Nagging doubt based on what though?
Social conditioning - she’s a white middle class blonde attractive young woman. And she’s a nurse.
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Aug 2023
11:48am, 22 Aug 2023
47,553 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
I'm gonna go for a "how dare you?" here Fields. Please do NOT make assumptions about me. If you mean "most people" then say that, otherwise as you have copied directly from a response which was to me, I'm going to assume you mean me.
No. My doubt is nothing to do with her income, gender or ethnicity. Yes, it's to do with her being a nurse.
So I am now getting dragged into what I said I wouldn't go into. The snippets I have read - her notes to herself, her own diaries about self loathing and self doubt. It smacks of someone worried and concerned, the old "cry for help". Did she have adequate support? What supervision was there? The NHS has massive under resourcing, under staffing and over working - what pressures was she feeling, was she isolated, alone in her work?
There seem to have been significant failures to investigate, possibly to do with hospital management desire to avoid bad publicity. That is also a travesty and is being investigated.
But was the actual perpetrator just an evil, cruel, sadistic killer who loved pain and death, or was there a wider problem of the environment in which they worked?
Anyway, I'm going to stop now. But Fields, don't call me a racist, misogynist again. Please.
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Aug 2023
11:55am, 22 Aug 2023
9,843 posts
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Fields
It was a comment on the media coverage rather than your post in particular but it may well subconsciously influence your view as well - see the numerous references to the value of her house, how her friends thought she was nice and kind, her proud parents, family holidays to Torquay etc.
She doesn’t match societies image of what a murderer looks like.
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Aug 2023
12:25pm, 22 Aug 2023
42,338 posts
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SPR
Not every nurse is going to be a good person so it's a bit irrational to doubt a whole case and express those doubts with the evidence out there just because she's a nurse.
Fields comment is why a lot of people are shocked and most of them might not realise it and would be offended if it was put to them that it was the case. Many times in the media especially offenders are 'othered', in a way to say it can't possibly be one of us, and if it's too close to home, then people want to rationalise.
In regards to pressure, I think it pretty clear that becoming a serial killer of babies is way past the normal response to pressure.
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Aug 2023
12:26pm, 22 Aug 2023
30,792 posts
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Johnny Blaze
"Donald Trump has said he plans to turn himself in on Thursday to a court in the state of Georgia to face charges of election interference.
A judge in Atlanta who is overseeing the former president's case has set bail at $200,000 (£157,000).
The agreement says Mr Trump can remain free pending trial so long as he does not attempt to threaten or intimidate witnesses."
The ex President has to be compelled into not threatening witnesses. All perfectly normal. He's a gangster.
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Aug 2023
12:28pm, 22 Aug 2023
42,339 posts
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SPR
I should say it would be shocking regardless, but it raises the shock level.
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Fantasy General Election
Jul 2024
