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Jul 2023
12:03pm, 18 Jul 2023
30,610 posts
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Johnny Blaze
*does not necessarily apply in Scotland or NI.
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Jul 2023
12:27pm, 18 Jul 2023
25,225 posts
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Bazoaxe
*does not necessarily apply in Scotland or NI.
well we voted to be ruled by the tories apparently. Seems like England are also going to follow suit 
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Jul 2023
12:29pm, 18 Jul 2023
41,688 posts
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SPR
It was a definite argument made in the referendum so it's not new.
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Jul 2023
12:36pm, 18 Jul 2023
17,781 posts
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JK *chameleon*
Rubbish. My posts - even the "trolling" ones - are all round a central theme: if you want historically progressive policies, you are gonna have to elect a Labour govt led by a centrist Labour leader. AFAIC that's an essential fact of our recent history going back to the seventies. You won't get progressive, redistributive, policies driven by empathy and compassion and a desire for social justice with the Tories, and the Lib Dems spread their legs for Cameron when it suited them and visited 10 years of Austerity on us. The Greens are no-hopers. A leftwing Labour Party has been rejected by the electorate on numerous occasions. Sorry to be the bearer of inconvenient truths.
Nope.
Once more for the hard of hearing and thinking. If I live in an *overwhelmingly* Labour seat, then me choosing not to vote Labour is a fair choice to show that I don't agree with their direction of travel. If I lived in a seat that had any chance of swing then I'd choose differently. But you waffling on about any criticism (other than you) of the current Labour Party as permitting the Tories is wrong, and foolish.
I don't believe that this will change anything, but I have to have hope that one day my vote might actually count for something. In all my voting years, the only time I've had any real impact was the Brexit vote (even if I was on the losing side).
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Jul 2023
12:40pm, 18 Jul 2023
41,689 posts
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SPR
It's really not hard to understand.
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Jul 2023
12:45pm, 18 Jul 2023
30,611 posts
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Johnny Blaze
If you troubled to read my posts, although again I would not encourage you strongly to do because I'm not that bad of a person, I have tried on many occasions to make the following points:
1 Voting in marginal constituencies and even not so marginal constituencies in a way that will assist the Con candidate purely out of pique against Starmer because he said this that or the other is dumb and self-destructive.
2 Specifically voicing the thought that 5 more years of the Tories is a price worth paying to keep Starmer (one man) and therefore Labour out is so far off the self-harm scale it makes the average Brexiteer look like a model of rational thinking.
3 Starmer hasn't "done" anything yet but you have all pronounced judgement already...
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Jul 2023
1:08pm, 18 Jul 2023
30,612 posts
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Johnny Blaze
I am from Salford, where the proverbial chimp in a red rosette could win an election by a landslide without even stopping for a banana break. Frank Allaun and Hazel Blears...
I was also a big supporter back in the day of Charter 88, which wanted profound constitutional change. I could have stayed at home through the 80s or thrown my vote away on the Lib Dems because Labour weren't a PR party, but I didn't.
1 I wanted a Labour govt as the best and only counter to Thatch. I believed in their policies aside from constitutional reform so why wouldn't I vote for them. Who else are you gonna call?
2 I can still vote Labour (as a realistic option) and hold a belief in constitutional reform at the same time. The alternative for me was to fail to put my own small shoulder against the steamroller that was the Tories in the 80s and that was insupportable.
I can both want a better system AND vote for what's in front of me as the best available option - at the same time. I am also willing to vote for the best option even if it isn't perfect. Because that's the world I think we inhabit.
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Jul 2023
1:11pm, 18 Jul 2023
2,693 posts
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Big_G
JB, genuinely interested what you would you do in this instance of my constituency? At the last GE these were the results. I want the Torys out and know Labour are our best hope of that nationally, but do you agree that voting from there here is pointless? I’m pissed off with LD but what choice do I have?
Cons 59%
LD 24%
Lab 13%
Green 2.5%
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Jul 2023
1:14pm, 18 Jul 2023
2,694 posts
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Big_G
By the way, at the recent locals, my constituency was one of the two where Cons gained. I often feel I don’t belong here!
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Jul 2023
1:16pm, 18 Jul 2023
30,613 posts
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Johnny Blaze
One last thought, direct from the Labour Selby candidate today:
"It’s no easy task turning a Tory stronghold red, but we’ve already made massive strides in our effort to close the 20,000 Tory majority and we need your help to help us get over the line."
A 20,000 majority is not even marginal, but if it was my constituency right now, why would I, as a non-Tory person, really choose not to do my small bit to chuck the Tory out? In what world would that make sense?
After what they have done to the country these last 13 years staking the bastards through the heart in every street, road and field is a patriotic duty!
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