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Feb 2020
1:44pm, 3 Feb 2020
15,720 posts
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Chrisull
The early release legislation would have made a difference of one year in the release of this guy. So in other words, none. Patel is just lying to score political points.
The problem seems to be the police knew he was still radicalised and had an armed SWAT team tailing him. So one argument is that the sentence should be longer if the people involved still pose a problem to the public. And of course some offenders may always pose a threat to the public. So the question becomes do you jail them indefinitely (which seems totally illiberal and likely to be misused on non-terrorism offences/political ones), and if you don't just how do you stop it happening again? I have no answers.
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Feb 2020
1:45pm, 3 Feb 2020
307 posts
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Stander
J2R - there are idiots on both sides of the debate but one idiot racist with a printer doesn't make every Leaver a racist. Just as one vocal Remoaner does not mean all remain voters are bitter or twisted about the outcome.
These do get reported though as they make a news headlines.
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Feb 2020
1:48pm, 3 Feb 2020
308 posts
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Stander
Chris - people with mental health issues deemed to be a danger to themselves or the public can be institutionalised (sectioned) indefinitely until deemed safe to release.
I can see no reason why these standards cannot be applied to terrorists so long as they too remain a threat to public safety.
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Feb 2020
1:49pm, 3 Feb 2020
9,512 posts
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rf_fozzy
Chris - was listening on R5 earlier, and someone made the point about IPPs, which the Conservative govt abolished.
Basically it sounds like they're going to bring them back probably.
Which I'm not exactly in favour of.
The problem is complex and therefore the solution must be too. Lock em up and throw away the key is just the simplism populist approach. So no surprise it's being aired.
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Feb 2020
1:56pm, 3 Feb 2020
309 posts
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Stander
Given two attacks in recent months, the current system (and let's not bother apportioning blame), clearly isn't working.
Something needs to change. Even if a quick simply popular approach gets used whilst a longer term more effective method is brought in later, surely it will save lives?
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Feb 2020
1:56pm, 3 Feb 2020
2,569 posts
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J2R
Stander, I think I said that, didn't I? I said "All it means is that one nasty xenophobe with a printer has stuck a few flyers around. It doesn't mean that much. " I did not in any way suggest that every Leaver was a racist (and I don't think they are).
As it happens, in general I think the term 'racist' is widely abused, by people on what I consider my side of the debate (Remain, broadly Left leaning). In the vast majority of cases, what they mean by racism is in fact xenophobia. People who don't want Eastern Europeans in this country are not being racist, as Eastern Europeans are not a race. They're being xenophobic. The distinction may be insignificant if you're on the receiving end, but I still think it's an important one. The perceived over-use of the term 'racist' is one of the things which the far Right/Alt-Right have seized on, encouraging people to reject the whole liberal position on this, thereby allowing in genuine, nasty white supremacist racist views.
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Feb 2020
1:57pm, 3 Feb 2020
10,598 posts
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Markymarkmark
Sounds like the need a new soundbite slogan to replace "Get Brexit Done" now it's all done. :-p.
Something like "Tough on Crime. Tough on the Causes if Crime" would do it this week.....
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Feb 2020
2:02pm, 3 Feb 2020
310 posts
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Stander
The problem with the word "racist" is that it is increasing difficult to discuss racist issues without being called one.
Too many keyboard warriors, or snowflakes. Or people too ready to play the racist card in lieu of an actual reasoned argument (see the recent Question time, for instance).
And I make no apology for using wither of those two terms because you all know exactly what I mean by them.
And before any of you jump on me, I am NOT accusing anyone in here of being either.
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Feb 2020
2:07pm, 3 Feb 2020
6,282 posts
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jda
Just to play devil's advocate, just how much do we need to change or legal system to take account of a handful of random nutters with knives? It's only one or two attacks in a year or so isn't it?
Tragic and all that for those concerned but 5 people were killed on the roads yesterday too - and every other day - and no-one bats an eyelid.
(it might be more like 3 than 5, and the numbers are low in international terms, but it's still a lot more people than terrorists kill.)
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Feb 2020
2:11pm, 3 Feb 2020
6,283 posts
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jda
J2R, you are getting a bit too cute on the definition of race there. Race is a protected characteristic that refers to an individual's race, colour, nationality and ethnic or national origins.
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