Nov 2019
11:05am, 7 Nov 2019
9,414 posts
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larkim
I disagree with HG though on the "keep out of politics" perspective. There are plenty of charities which agitate for outcomes which are fundamentally within the gift of politics - can you argue that charities like Age Concern, Mencap etc which have both "provider" functions and "lobbying" functions shouldn't engage in the political debate. For practical purposes they'll often steer clear of specifically advocating for or against a political party simply to ensure they don't alienate chunks of their donor base, but on individual issues they can and do get engaged in politics.
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Nov 2019
11:11am, 7 Nov 2019
33,084 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Outcomes yes, not parties larkim. So we are agreeing. FR, completely respect your strong faith (love your blogs!). For me a big distinction between personal faith, organised religion and especially the leaders within those organised religions, of whom I am very wary. |
Nov 2019
11:28am, 7 Nov 2019
35,149 posts
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Nellers
I think it would be a shame if religious leaders of any kind were banned from passing comment (or protesting about) poverty, inequality, war, refugees etc. It's knid of what they're meant to be for in a way isn't it? Coming out and explicitly backing one party over another by name is another thing but I guess it would be hard to have one without allowing the other. I seem to remember various CofE bishops speaking out in favour of ending poverty and not starting wars and helping refugees in the past regardless of which party is in charge at the time. I don't think any of these was "Official Church Policy" though, and it certainly wasn't presented as "Tory/Labour are bad". It was more "This particular issue needs to be addressed". As an atheist I'd rather there was a true separation of church and state but, given that there is one in America, I'm not sure the legalities of it would help matters. There are more pressing things to worry about in the political world these day! |
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Nov 2019
11:29am, 7 Nov 2019
9,415 posts
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larkim
Yes, but where there is a clear outcome which only one party is promising (or which specifically some parties are rejecting), charities become politically aligned. No different to the churches. Slightly different scenario where a local vicar leads his congregation one way or another though, certainly.
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Nov 2019
11:34am, 7 Nov 2019
35,150 posts
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Nellers
I may be wrong but I don't see charities specifically saying "We've got to get the tories out" or the opposite. You might see them agreeing with particular policies of specific parties explicitly, sometimes even working with those parties to ensure that their policies align with the charities' aims, but endorsing a particular party is much more rare isn't it? Or am I a bit out of touch, which is entirely possible.
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Nov 2019
12:23pm, 7 Nov 2019
1,383 posts
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Weean
Larks, Do you think that Jacob Rees-Mogg's broad moral perspective is informed by his catholicism? Although agnostic myself, I used to be grateful for the fact I was brought up within a 'christian' setting because it had helped found my moral perspective. Until I started to meet others of different religious upbringings (and none!) who were easily as moral as me. |
Nov 2019
12:33pm, 7 Nov 2019
15,570 posts
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Bazoaxe
I am a Fire Warden at work and all the training we get is to get everyone out the building quickly and smoothly without hanging about or going to collect your coat, bag, phone, coffee etc. I am surprised the advice at the time was to stay put and I have to admit that if I had found myself in that siutation my instincts and work training would have made me strongly consider avoiding the FB advice.
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Nov 2019
12:37pm, 7 Nov 2019
29,640 posts
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SPR
There's very good reason for the stay put advice though. It was only wrong due to the changes to the building. bbc.co.uk |
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Nov 2019
12:48pm, 7 Nov 2019
9,417 posts
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larkim
THere are good and bad catholics Weean! Honestly, I can't see how he can square catholicism with his views, but I wouldn't want to actively criticise his faith choices which I hope are sincere. I'm sure plenty of my local parishioners vote blue too. And I've nearly walked out of church a couple of times with some daily mail-sourced social comments coming from the pulpit. It's all about forgiveness, though, init?
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Nov 2019
12:52pm, 7 Nov 2019
22,878 posts
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Johnny Blaze
I think the entwining of Faith and politics in the UK is "fairly" light touch. Alastair Campbell always instructed Blair that "we don't do God" and he kept to that pretty much, I seem to recall. I very much doubt the current crop of Conservatives would get much of a hearing if they started invoking the Almighty, given their policies are so lacking in compassion and social responsibility and their leader is a liar and a philanderer. They have rather surrendered the moral high ground over the years. It strikes me that the deeds of the Tories give the lie to any moral policy underpinnings, whereas Labour politicians tend to come across as secular in outlook and appeal to communitarian and humanist principles rather than holy writ, which I personally much prefer. The close relationship between faith and politics in the US does not supply an example we should choose to emulate. |
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