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Nov 2019
3:28pm, 4 Nov 2019
5,804 posts
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jda
Do you mean Additional Member? I thought AV was precisely the same as STV in single-member constituencies. Do you mean there should have been regional groupings with STV applied across them? I didn't pay a great deal of attention, being away at the time, but if I could vote green, LD, Labour in any order and know that one of them would win if and only if their combined vote exceeded Tory and BP put together (being a bit simplistic) then this would seem entirely fair to me.
As it is I'm left hoping that the BP steals enough tory vote and that the anti-tories manage to magically coalesce round one choice...which won't happen in my constituency.
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Nov 2019
3:28pm, 4 Nov 2019
33,040 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
The onus is on those setting the question, and the context, to get it right. Clear wording, if necessary, independent education materials in advance (explanations on TV, social media etc.) with a clear explanation.
e.g. "Alternative Member" is really easy. Vote for your constituency rep, like you always have. But you get a vote too for a "party". The parties get reps to send in based on that second vote. Simples.
Probably with a meerkat explaining it. Or something.
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Nov 2019
3:30pm, 4 Nov 2019
5,805 posts
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jda
A bit baffled by the criticism of AV. It seems the simplest possible improvement on the current system, while maintaining the local link. I know it doesn't guarantee proportionality but in practice it would be a big improvement and also basically removes the need for tactical voting and pacts etc which are widely disliked for good reasons.
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Nov 2019
3:37pm, 4 Nov 2019
33,041 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Sure jda, I agree.
So the "education" campaign goes:
The choice you are being offered is something call Alternative Vote or AV. It's pretty clear - just say what order you prefer the candidates in. 1 to 5. Just like that. And the representatives in parliament are then based on the order everyone votes in. Simples.
Again meerkats, cuddly dolls (or cheaper meerkat stickers or other less environmentally carp) issued free to anyone who wants to encourage turnout etc.  G
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Nov 2019
4:09pm, 4 Nov 2019
9,369 posts
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larkim
I'm still a FPTP advocate. Direct representation, simple to comprehend at that level, simple to administer, tends to benefit the two larger parties and more often than not (though clearly not in recent history) delivers a govt with a workable overall majority that provides a stable base from which to govern.
I can see all the logic in the world behind the other proportional / semi-proportional systems. But I still in my heart prefer FPTP.
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Nov 2019
4:12pm, 4 Nov 2019
33,042 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Nah larks. Yer just wrong mate.
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Nov 2019
4:12pm, 4 Nov 2019
9,370 posts
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larkim
Probably. I usually am
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Nov 2019
4:16pm, 4 Nov 2019
33,043 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
It does favour two larger parties. But two larger parties doesn't mean stable base from which to govern, imho. You get polarisation and a pendulum effect between extremes. Nationalise, privatise; benefits increase, benefits cuts; tax increase, tax cuts. It's the most unstable governing you can imagine. It's short-termist and doesn't suit longer term building. It's divisive rather than collaborative. Not evidence, just opinion. I'll try and get some evidence if I can find anyone that thinks same as above...!
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Nov 2019
4:18pm, 4 Nov 2019
9,371 posts
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larkim
Just look at the list of countries that are FPTP - makes you proud to be in this list We're there with all the big, progressive nations of the world....
Antigua and Barbuda
Azerbaijan
Bahamas
Barbados
Bangladesh
Belize
Bermuda (United Kingdom)
Bhutan
Botswana
Brazil (Federal Senate)
Canada
Cayman Islands (United Kingdom)
Cote d'Ivoire
Cook Islands (New Zealand)
Dominica
Eritrea
Eswatini
Ethiopia
Gabon
Gambia
Ghana
Grenada
India
Jamaica
Kenya
Kuwait
Lao People's Democratic Republic
Liberia
Marshall Islands
Maldives
Malawi
Malaysia
Mauritius
Micronesia
Myanmar (Burma)
Nigeria
Niue
Oman
Pakistan
Palau
Philippines
Poland (Senate)
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Samoa
Seychelles
Singapore
Sierra Leone
Solomon Islands
Taiwan
Tonga
Trinidad and Tobago
Tuvalu
Uganda
United Kingdom
United States
Virgin Islands (United Kingdom and United States)
Yemen
Zambia
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Nov 2019
4:20pm, 4 Nov 2019
33,044 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
I was going to post that one but thought it was unfair. Glad you did though larks! Not the model of global democracies?
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