Sep 2019
10:29pm, 18 Sep 2019
15,226 posts
|
Chrisull
When the hate figures de jour are 1) the RNLI 2) Luxembourg 3) the father of a sick 7 day year old child who is also a Labour activist 4) the judiciary you know the other side have completely lost the fucking plot. I don't pretend remainers are all peace loving hippies, in fact the Lib Dems have gone so far to the other extreme, and they've now let Corbyn have the rational middle ground (which is a referendum), if he can seize it. Today I saw a meme from a lexiteer on Facebook with Jo Swinson dressed up in Nazi regalia, which has come from some conservative circles. What happened to "sensible" one nation Tories? Why must they so convulsely hate, hate, hate? I'm so tired of this. |
Sep 2019
10:34pm, 18 Sep 2019
2,623 posts
|
FenlandRunner
Me, too, Chris. It is all about winners and losers, haters not lovers. Surely, no matter your opinion, you 'just' want the best for your kids? For them to have a better life and better opportunities? Unfortunately, the way the world is going, it seems we are in terminal decline. 
|
|
Sep 2019
7:48am, 19 Sep 2019
2,314 posts
|
Fellrunning
You can probably add Finland to that list this morning Chris. "No written proposals by the end of September and its over." Antti Rinne (Finnish PM) And in my experience if a Finn tells you it's over then it probably is.... |
Sep 2019
7:51am, 19 Sep 2019
9,135 posts
|
rf_fozzy
The lib Dem position on brexit is *not* extreme. It's literally the status quo!! |
Sep 2019
8:14am, 19 Sep 2019
32,409 posts
|
HappyG(rrr)
FR is that a French "Fin" vs. Finn pun re The End?! I'm so punny. Quelle comedie! I don't know whether to back Cancel Brexit or 2nd Ref. Clearly the outcome I want is Remain, but is that best served by just getting behind a clear manifesto of Cancel Brexit a la Lib Dems or a 2nd Ref? 2nd Ref gives a chance of it feeling "democratic", but what if it's 51:49 to Remain? That feels incredibly divisive. And what would the wording of the Ref be? And how would the campaigns be conducted. Sure, we know more now, but with lies and spin, who knows what frenzy could be whipped up (obviously I'm mostly concerned about the continuing Leave campaigners, but Remainers could be pretty horrific too). What would that do to the country? Hmmm... |
Sep 2019
8:19am, 19 Sep 2019
18,849 posts
|
DeeGee
Revoke article 50 and cancel Brexit aren't the same thing. Albeit they are being treated as such by the Liberal Democrats. Article 50 should not have been passed until parliament as a whole had had the chance to actually decide how much Brexit was acceptable for both the nation as a sovereign entity and "William Peebles" as a noisy agitator. Revoking Article 50 now doesn't preclude invoking it again once we actually have the beginnings of makings of a plan. Crashing out now is irreversable, though. |
|
Sep 2019
9:33am, 19 Sep 2019
15,227 posts
|
Chrisull
Post the referendum it is now extreme, not because the actual position itself is extreme (as in radical/groundbreaking sense of the word), but because it lies at the polar opposite of a no-deal Brexit. This poll from YouGov may well be an outlier: Westminster voting intention: CON: 32% (-) LDEM: 23% (+4) LAB: 21% (-2) BREX: 14% (-) GRN: 4% (-3) Labour now find themselves in the "middle ground" with the referendum (or a soft Brexit a la S Kinnock) as views are polarising and hardening. A PASOKification of their vote looms, and Corbyn and co are too dim to see this. If Brexit does get cancelled, Leavers only have themselves to blame. By Brexiteers adopting the most extreme position (no deal or nothing), and boiling everything down to clear talking points" will of people" and "frustrating democracy", they are now being countered by a LIbDem party ready to do the opposite. It doesn't matter that LIbDems first floated the EU referendum and have always been in favour of another, they know that only the simplest position cuts through. They know that hypocrisy doesn't matter here, they have a simple position "Bollocks to Brexit" just revoke, and it's hard to argue with that. |
|
Sep 2019
9:39am, 19 Sep 2019
9,138 posts
|
rf_fozzy
Yougov give a very low weighting to 18-34yr old turnout. So that gives Con a bigger share. Most of the variability between polls is how they are weighting relative turnouts of diff age groups |
Sep 2019
9:40am, 19 Sep 2019
29,515 posts
|
LindsD
HappyG - doesn't how you 'should' vote to get the outcome you desire depend on the nature of your constituency? I wd vote Lib Dem on Brexit, despite being a card-carrying member of the Labour party, but it wd be a wasted vote in my constituency and might let the Tories in.
|
|
Sep 2019
10:33am, 19 Sep 2019
15,228 posts
|
Chrisull
But YouGov got the closest to the 2017 election result, despite the supposedly bigger youth turnout? yougov.co.uk In fact they predicted more seats for Labour than they got... (269 to 261) |
Useful Links
FE accepts no responsibility for external links. Or anything, really.Related Threads
-
Fantasy General Election
Jul 2024
-
EU Referendum - In or Out? Vote here
Aug 2018
-
March to Parliament Against Brexit - Sat 2nd July
Jun 2016
-
EU Referendum
Feb 2016
-
Ads on Fetch - anyone else getting Leave and Remain?!
Feb 2017
-
The Environment Thread :-)
Nov 2024
-
Economics
Aug 2023
-
Dear Scottish Fetchies
Jan 2023
-
Any economists out there - question
Oct 2022
-
Power and exploitation - please check my sanity
Oct 2018