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Sep 2019
9:20am, 20 Sep 2019
8,713 posts
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larkim
As someone who would like the referendum to be put to one side, I am fearful that if the same old WA came back that the parliamentary maths would have shifted from the anti-May position to one where groups like the ERG are content to put their votes behind the govt because they have more faith in Bojo than they did in May to make get the final outcome right once the transition periods are over etc.
There are enough on the Labour benches who might support that too, on the basis of their local electoral position and even a principled belief that it is the right representative thing to do for their constituents if they can only conceive of Brexit-flavoured outcomes (i.e. remain or 2nd ref is not acceptable to them).
No-one else have that apprehension? No matter what the press or the opposition might say, if the Tories themselves don't give Boris a rough ride over any deal that comes back to Parliament, Bojo will be able to make the claim that he's done what he said he would.
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Sep 2019
9:27am, 20 Sep 2019
32,431 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Yes larks. I said that a few weeks/months ago. That principled (or self-interested depending on who kind you are being) Labour MPs support a "Some Deal" Brexit on the basis that it's better than No Deal and isn't *against* Labour policy (what policy?!) and that it represents / plays well with their particular constituencies. The maths is not impossible. This is a great fear for me!  G
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Sep 2019
9:30am, 20 Sep 2019
3,287 posts
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Raemond
I feared that may be the outcome back during the tory leadership contest - bojo tweaks the existing WA minimally, rolls it in glitter and passes it off as 'my shiny new deal what's totally different honest, see, all those froggy foreigners needed was a real man to tell them what was what' and gets it through.
There's still a chance that enough of those who voted it down before will say that their non-backstop related objections haven't been addressed, though, and with all the ex tories freed from the whip now it may not quite get over the line.
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Sep 2019
10:16am, 20 Sep 2019
15,233 posts
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Chrisull
Some journalists are reporting they can't get the "deal" (WA) through in time for 31st October (not enough time to get through the processes done), so it's basically ask for an extension or no deal.
It seems Johnson is going down the WA route I believe, but he will have to ask for an extension.
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Sep 2019
10:37am, 20 Sep 2019
8,714 posts
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larkim
we've had that position before though in terms of the "deal". The basics of the "deal" really put everything on a status quo for a period of time, so I'd fully expect a formal departure on 31st Oct if a deal was passed, no matter what the flavour was.
After the fun and games of the last couple of weeks, it does feel like Boris / Leave are making progress - or maybe I'm just buying the spin.
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Sep 2019
10:45am, 20 Sep 2019
5,223 posts
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jda
There is surely no time to get any deal through by the 31st, the process takes longer than that. Even if there was a deal to get through. Which there isn't.
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Sep 2019
10:47am, 20 Sep 2019
5,224 posts
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jda
I have literally no idea what posters like larkim are talking about when they say progress is being made. There are literally no proposals and no negotiations. As various EU officials and resigning Tory govt ministers have said repeatedly over the past few weeks.
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Sep 2019
10:53am, 20 Sep 2019
18,852 posts
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DeeGee
Kinnock amendment, I presume, jda. May's WA has one more round of voting. That was, as I recall, tagged onto the Benn no-deal bill.
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Sep 2019
10:53am, 20 Sep 2019
8,715 posts
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larkim
LOL, I didn't say that progress was being made - I set it feels like they are making progress, a subtle distinction!
The EU noises are mixed, but Juncker's quote on the BBC ("He said his meeting with Mr Johnson in Luxembourg on Monday had been "rather positive", and "we can have a deal" in the next few weeks.") is a move on from the "we've not had anything at all" position that most of the EU noises signalled last week.
Maybe that's me just buying the spin, as I said. This might be a soft govt tactic to make us think that there is a continuation of meangingful dialogue which could result in an anti-no deal outcome, only for the rug to be pulled at the last minute.
So it's unfair to suggest that there are no positive noises at all, and that is at odds with the complete absence of positive noises over the previous few weeks. Whether it will come to anything is another thing altogether. And fingers crossed that it doesn't so that we can get Parliament back, get the govt defeated again, get a delay agreed and get the VONC / election called.
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Sep 2019
10:58am, 20 Sep 2019
3,288 posts
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Raemond
That's not entirely true or fair jda - technical talks have been happening for some time and while no 'official' proposals have been tabled yet the UK has put together 'non-papers' (which I guess might be a bit of an opaque and jargonistic term to outsiders, but is basically a sort of exploration of possibilities as starting point for drawing up proper Papers) the contents of which have miraculously yet to be leaked although the fact of their existence now has. They covered:
o All-island SPS zone: The non-paper tabled covers proposals on regulatory scope and discussions on governance.
o Customs & manufactured Goods (two papers) which set out our proposals and product journeys to illustrate how the model would work in practice.
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