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Polarized training

91 watchers
May 2022
12:51pm, 25 May 2022
4,218 posts
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Goofee
My run from this morning, 97% in the lovely green bit and just 3% in the naughty zone, but it was quite a steep, gnarly hill! :-)

May 2022
1:03pm, 25 May 2022
1,429 posts
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Bowman 🇸🇪
Yes it’s great to be able to set it as you please Fetch, and I’m going to polarize my training even more for a while now, looking forward to get some noticeable result like you Ian.
May 2022
3:52pm, 25 May 2022
2,237 posts
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MudMeanderer
I'd be interested in the experience of any multisport types.

I reasonably successfully used a polarised approach when running. However on the bike I've found it considerably less useful.

I'll do hours at endurance or tempo without HR drift or particularly feeling tired. I'll manage reasonable anaerobic efforts (WKO is profiling me as a pursuiter currently!).

However if I don't do a considerable amount of time at sweetspot (i.e. the middle ground), I find my ability around threshold is significantly diminished - my legs won't push despite my HR not rising. It feels there is a muscular endurance aspect that isn't hit by polarised training, compared to pyramidal. Maybe if you have WT rider availability, but I'm not sure I can do much beyond my current 12hrs a week.

It feels polarised gives a strong CV system but not great for musculature. Do any other riders have this perception?
SPR
May 2022
4:11pm, 25 May 2022
36,853 posts
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SPR
The middle ground is threshold in the original polarised and was 10%. I don't know whether the 80/20 'translation' has lead to ignoring the middle ground but it doesn't seem sensible to ignore an area completely.

I don't train to HR zones though, just fall into the right zones based on training principles.
May 2022
8:27am, 29 May 2022
1,438 posts
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Bowman 🇸🇪
Anyone getting new niggles from the “easy” runs. I know it supposed to be proper strides (gaits?) but it’s not that easy to do. It’s more a cliff young shuffle..
I feel that the slow pace is less controlled than a medium (banned) pace.

And my ankle pain from a strain a few weeks ago is flaring up, even though I’m running very soft and effortless.

I guess you have to get use to this too.
May 2022
9:17am, 29 May 2022
77,023 posts
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Gobi
Bowman - are you not running how you normally run ?

Define slow

I run down at 13mm when I run with the other half with no more issues than I have at 6mm
SPR
May 2022
10:11am, 29 May 2022
36,877 posts
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SPR
There's definitely form things to look at as Gobi suggested. Running significantly slower than you're used to will definitely change things like contact time, and ROM or cadence will have to change or even both. I wouldn't expect more aches and pains from this though. Longer runs are a different matter as if you keep distance the same you will be out for longer and that can have a toll even if you're running slower.

Looking at your profile pic, can't see the foot fully but if that's at landing (and from the gait position it looks pretty close) then it looks like an overstride that may be more prominent at lower speeds or more 'jolting'.
SPR
May 2022
10:15am, 29 May 2022
36,878 posts
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SPR
I also notice you ran a marathon a couple of weeks ago, so are the aches and pains really due to running slower or due to your body not being fully recovered?
May 2022
10:33am, 29 May 2022
1,439 posts
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Bowman 🇸🇪
Gobi i guess i do not run exactly like I do when I run in a “comfortable” pace. Slow, below ~70% of MHR I guess I’m around 5:30/km on flat ground. Or even a bit faster. End then it feels like I have to really cripple my self to stay that slow pace. It feels like I have to disengage the springiness in my feets not to get the pulse up over 70mhr. And when it’s hilly the gait really goes out the window due to the slow pace I have to maintain.
I guess it’s a matter of getting use to it.
SPR
I guess it’s been longer distances, since I still want to get out more mileage at a lower strain, ie, running easier. That might be it as well.

Also, yes I did a marathon, and strained my self leading up to that race, but I was ok on the race day, and had no issues after the race either.

But it came back after my “rest after the marathon and specifically week two when I started to ramp mileage up a bit again, albeit this time with a lot more “easy” Hr runs.

So as you say, try to run normal, and maybe the niggle is from before the marathon, and not just because I run “slow”.

Thanks guys!
J2R
May 2022
4:53pm, 29 May 2022
4,203 posts
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J2R
I would second what Gobi says here. Running slowly is a kind of skill which you have to learn. Before, my gait would change when running slowly with Mrs J2R, and I would get aches and pains, but now I can keep the same gait down to much slower speeds than I used to be able to.

About This Thread

Maintained by Canute
Polarised training is a form of training that places emphasis on the two extremes of intensity. There is a large amount of low intensity training (comfortably below lactate threshold) and an appreciable minority of high intensity training (above LT).

Polarised training does also include some training near lactate threshold, but the amount of threshold training is modest, in contrast to the relatively high proportion of threshold running that is popular among some recreational runners.

Polarised training is not new. It has been used for many years by many elites and some recreational runners. However, it has attracted great interest in recent years for two reasons.

First, detailed reviews of the training of many elite endurance athletes confirms that they employ a polarised approach (typically 80% low intensity, 10% threshold and 10% high intensity. )

Secondly, several scientific studies have demonstrated that for well trained athletes who have reached a plateau of performance, polarised training produces greater gains in fitness and performance, than other forms of training such as threshold training on the one hand, or high volume, low intensity training on the other.

Much of the this evidence was reviewed by Stephen Seiler in a lecture delivered in Paris in 2013 .
vimeo.com

In case you cannot access that lecture by Seiler in 2013, here is a link to his more recent TED talk.

ted.com
This has less technical detail than his 2013 talk, but is nonetheless a very good introduction to the topic. It should be noted that from the historical perspective, Seiler shows a US bias.

Here is another useful video by Stephen Seiler in which he discusses the question of the optimum intensity and duration of low intensity sessions. Although the answer ‘depends on circumstances’ he proposes that a low intensity session should be long enough to reach the point where there are detectable indications of rising stress (either the beginning of upwards drift of HR or increased in perceived effort). If longer than this, there is increasing risk of damaging effects. A session shorter than this might not be enough to produce enough stress to achieve a useful training effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GXc474Hu5U


The coach who probably deserves the greatest credit for emphasis on the value of low intensity training was Arthur Lydiard, who coached some of the great New Zealanders in the 1960's and Scandinavians in the 1970’s. One of his catch-phrases was 'train, don't strain'. However Lydiard never made it really clear what he meant by ‘quarter effort’. I have discussed Lydiard’s ideas on several occasions on my Wordpress blog. For example: canute1.wordpress.com
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