EU Referendum - In or Out? Vote here

3 lurkers | 70 watchers

DeeGee Nov 2016 3:30pm, 3 Nov 2016 17,654 posts	0 DeeGee Given that I voted "Remain" based primarily on a wish to remain in the single market and to retain free movement? Yes. I wasn't entirely convinced by the control the EU had over us but felt that leaving would squander what I hold dear. The Brexit question isn't binary, there are many shades of Brexit. Some remainers might well (read: will definitely) prefer a soft Brexit with continued membership of the EEA. Some Brexiteers, the ones who wanted a return of our sovereignty and greater self-determination, but without necessarily surrendering our freedom to live and work in Europe or to trade freely with our neighbours. I genuinely feel that those who are clamouring for hard Brexit are those who sought to send the foreigners home first and foremost and are a loud minority, the remain at any costs mob the same, and that the true majority are actually somewhere in the middle and will be happy to find a compromise. After all, we voted to leave the European Union. Not the single market. Not the EEA. Not customs union. That was the question on the paper, and although the shouters would have you believe that they voted for controlled immigration, leaving the single market and taking back our sovereignty, that wasn't what the ballot paper said, and therefore leaving the EU, but retaining a special relationship with the EU similar to what Norway does (lets decide what we can do with our own fishing grounds, perhaps) IS following the so called democratic will of the people (even if that will was only expressed in an opinion poll).
Fellrunning Nov 2016 7:43am, 5 Nov 2016 1,771 posts	0 Fellrunning People do this bbc.co.uk and then wonder why they get called stupid......
Seratonin Nov 2016 8:12pm, 5 Nov 2016 11,585 posts	0 Seratonin I can't believe that people are so vicious and callous.
JRitchie Nov 2016 3:46pm, 6 Nov 2016 1,214 posts	0 JRitchie Really angry at the latest rubbish in the news. The Referendum was about leaving the EU, there was nothing there about leaving the common market (different thing) . Its like having a referendum about "do you agree to taxation" and the winners thinking it gives them the right to decide what the rate should be without putting it to a vote. The worlds gone mad.
SPR Nov 2016 3:48pm, 6 Nov 2016 22,988 posts	0 SPR There was a point made somewhere about what if a remain vote had been taken to mean EU Max, so Euro, etc? Would have been unacceptable.
JRitchie Nov 2016 4:08pm, 6 Nov 2016 1,215 posts	0 JRitchie I agree SPR - and that point is of course hypothetical rather than the real here and now. FWIW I don't think a remain win would have been a green light to Euro etc as we are already opted out and Cameron had got some (feeble) agreement to change in advance of the referendum so at best a remain would only be a mandate to those changes otherwise retaining the status quo.
run free Nov 2016 4:35pm, 6 Nov 2016 3,010 posts	0 run free DG - I agree with you. IMHO - Brexit will make no difference to the way the NHS is being handled and reduced, nor will stop illegal migrants to continue to enter the country, nor reduce the refugees that we are responsible for creating as we continue in our part in the proxy war. Notice how the govt remains quiet about the NHS which was a concern for many leavers.
Winded Nov 2016 8:00pm, 6 Nov 2016 4,923 posts	0 Winded Any NHS damage is likely to be some years after leaving - apart from finding staff of course, oh and funding it as we will have less money but apart from that changes to the NHS will be years away.
deslauriers Nov 2016 8:42pm, 6 Nov 2016 166 posts	0 deslauriers Notice how now no Leaver talks about the economic benefits of leaving the EU. They now seem to understand there are none and will be none for a long time, if at all. Athough, some Brexiters have suggested logical arguments for leaving, they all rest on premises that are invalid, at least in my view. Now it seems many Brexiters knew the economy would take a hit and they knew Leave meant leaving the single market and the customs union, none of which was on the ballot paper funnily enough. They now claim it is about immigration; curious assertion, because most of the areas in which the Leave vote was highest have very few EU immigrants and those they do have contribute well to the local economy (Sunderland, that's you). So, I don't think it was about EU immigration either. The recent fiasco where some ( I stress "some"; most Brexiters want rule of law) in favour of Brexit have complained about British judges making decisions on British laws made by British parliaments kind of dismisses the sovereignty theory. Farage has already admitted the referendum was advisory but at the same time called for the public to "get even". Is that an incitement to public disturbance? Thought that was against the law. The Mail, as we all know, has form when it comes to backing dodgy ideology. The Express is like the Mail's slightly thicker mate and the Sun has a flawless record in spewing bile. It's great having a foreign press baron telling us to vote to take back control, or whatever. God, if only we had a competent Opposition. Anybody know if Gina Miller fancies the job?
ChrisHB Nov 2016 9:08pm, 6 Nov 2016 14,015 posts	0 ChrisHB I was amused to hear someone on R4 this morning say "breakfast" as if they were going to say "brexit".