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JRitchie May 2021 2:29pm, 10 May 2021 2,388 posts	Quote Pin JRitchie News that Scottish Greens are likely to be pushing for a rapid decline and shutting down of Scotland's oil and Gas Industry as the price for its support. A UK target to stop sale of petrol cars by 2030 will likely create the economic circumstances for a more rapid decline. But it is going to be an interesting dynamic if it spills out into policy. Scotland could face the perfect storm of 1. Challenges of Brexit without prospect of re-entry to EU for a few years 2. Challenge of cost of Independence, and 3. A rapid closure of one of Scotland's core industries that is export driven, and technology focussed. 1 may be overcome if EU happy to speak to and negotiate during an exist period. Renewables will not replace the job's displaced from O&G depletion.
HappyG(rrr) May 2021 2:35pm, 10 May 2021 38,641 posts	Quote Pin HappyG(rrr) I voted Green.
Bazoaxe May 2021 2:42pm, 10 May 2021 19,684 posts	Quote Pin Bazoaxe It is interesting because I think the SNP and Greens are quite far apart on this issue and the SNP know that this cannot proceed at the pace the Greens would like without consequences.
HappyG(rrr) May 2021 2:44pm, 10 May 2021 38,642 posts	Quote Pin HappyG(rrr) Aha! The benefits (or consequences) of coalition politics. Yay! G
K5 Gus May 2021 3:28pm, 10 May 2021 4,467 posts	Quote Pin K5 Gus Maybe one for the Environment Thread, but .............. A quick look at the ineos.com site shows that at Grangemouth they produce :- Ethylene - the essential intermediate (building block) employed in the petrochemical industry. It is used in the manufacture of the plastic: polyethylene (on site) and other chemicals in the petrochemical industry (eg VAM – emulsion paint, car fuel tanks, resins, adhesives) Propylene – intermediate (building block) used to manufacture, for example, the plastic: polypropylene (on site) Polyethylene – typical applications include plastic bottles (milk, shampoo), wrappers, food film etc Polypropylene – carpets, carpet backing, DVD cases, cabling, water pipes etc Ethanol – used in the pharmaceutical industry in the manufacturing process as a solvent LPG – for example camping gas Gasoline (petrol) – fuelling vehicles Jet fuel – aviation Home heating oil Diesel – fuelling vehicles Whilst some of the above may have simple alternatives ( eg glass milk bottles ), not all can. Those electric cars they want us all to be driving are full of lightweight plastic, as are our mobile phones, etc, etc. I fear we are far too dependent on oil derived products and I would imagine O&G will have to continue to some extent forever somewhere in the world if not in Scotland. So does moving the problem elsewhere actually solve it, or does it just give the Scottish Greens a warm feeling ? Would we be better keeping some of that capacity ( and therefore jobs ) in Scotland ?
Scorge May 2021 5:51pm, 10 May 2021 871 posts	Quote Pin Scorge if voting green means tanking a pile of O&G jobs up here then i'm okay with it provided there is at least an attempt to incentivise renewables investment up here. the glacial pace of the aberdeen harbour development compared to dundee is a bit of a red flag though. i am happy to bow to J's superior knowledge in this field, but i feel the general principle of trying to stop the world burning is one to dismiss far less lightly nowadays, even if it bites the labour market. all voting systems have imperfections but i think FPTP is the worst of all worlds except for the fact it's the easiest. transferable votes are perhaps fairer, but not the friendliest to explain, or count.
JRitchie May 2021 5:58pm, 10 May 2021 2,389 posts	Quote Pin JRitchie I think that Greens having a stronger voice and impact on policy is great. I'd like the direction to be more on the investment into renewables rather than the accelerated cessation of our subsea industry. Also agree HG that its a good thing we have some push and pull around policy objectives of different parties.
Dvorak May 2021 6:08pm, 10 May 2021 22,392 posts	Quote Pin Dvorak At a quick calculation, even if the no new ice cars by 2030 target is reached, it would be 2037, maybe later, before the majority of cars on the road were electric (and that's not taking any commercial vehicles into account). So there's still a lot of years a lot of petrol and diesel will be required for (for better or worse, even assuming the 2030 target is met). Better to produce our own fuels, use them in the least polluting manner possible, and have an orderly rundown of the sector (which still may have some legacy use for a very long time) than a headlong rush towards an as yet uncertain new utopia.
HappyG(rrr) May 2021 7:37am, 11 May 2021 38,646 posts	Quote Pin HappyG(rrr) If global demand for fuel and plastics goes down and disincentives such as taxation go up, surely O&G becomes an economically unfixable industry soon. Better to plan an orderly withdrawal from the coal mining industry of 40 years ago than wait until economics does it for us and the companies just walk away. All O&G companies need to move into other sectors or they will disappear anyway. Do it now, while they've got money and credit to use. Lightweight materials can be made without oil. Including steel, including polymers. There's a tech solution to most things. What there isn't, we have to forego. There should NOT be an oil and gas industry in 30 years. We should be capturing carbon out of the atmosphere and storing it in the ground, not taking any more of it out.
HappyG(rrr) May 2021 7:39am, 11 May 2021 38,647 posts	Quote Pin HappyG(rrr) *unviable not unfixable. Auto correct doesn't recognise unviable. Just like the O&G industry. G