Dear Scottish Fetchies

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K5 Gus Feb 2014 7:59pm, 7 Feb 2014 448 posts	0 K5 Gus A couple of points on the Scottish votes affecting UK governments :- a) To call it 2 years out of 67 ( 2.9% ) is distorting the numbers somewhat. It's either 2 out of 18 elections ( 11% ), or ( assuming 5 years for each parliament ) 10 out of 67 years ( 14.9% ). You can't mix and match numbers of elections and years. b) These figures are looking back historically, obviously. However the most relevant one on likely scenario going forward is the most recent, ie it DID effect the result. As you say the Con & Lib vote has reduced significantly from those earlier years, and no-one sees it suddenly rising back to those levels in the short to medium term, so I think it is fair to say that in a UK General Election the Scottish vote WOULD quite likley influence the next, and probably the next 2,3,4 general elections. ps I'm still on the fence, just trying to put a balanced view across
daviec Feb 2014 8:13pm, 7 Feb 2014 3,693 posts	0 daviec One of them was a failed minority government Gus. It only lasted a few months of 1974 and then there was another election which established a Labour government and that second outcome was not affected by the Scottish vote. The other only lasted two years - 1964 to 1966. So I'll give you 2.5 years and round it up to 3 out of 67 if you like. (4.5%) Looking forward, the number of Scottish MPs will be reduced to 52 by 2015 (from 59) and so actually it's highly unlikely that the Scottish vote will be bucking the historical trend. However the fact remains that we can stay in the union and MAYBE have a minor influence on the outcome of the future UK general elections (is there much difference between a UK Tory or a UK Labour government now?), or we can be independent and get the democratically elected government we vote for - EVERY TIME!
Jambomo Feb 2014 8:48pm, 7 Feb 2014 4,186 posts	0 Jambomo I find it frustrating that the discussion about Scottish Independence is based on fear and lies, it would be better to have well informed people making rational decisions. I only found today that the BBC have been found guilty of inaccurate reporting, which is unsurprising if you watch BBC Scotland but makes me angry all the same. newsnetscotland.com
ChrisHB Feb 2014 9:10pm, 7 Feb 2014 10,070 posts	0 ChrisHB I must admit, I'm not bright enough tonight (if ever) to understand what's in the link.
daviec Feb 2014 9:31pm, 7 Feb 2014 3,694 posts	0 daviec Jambomo, if that irritates you you probably don't want to read the study published by Dr John Robertson at University of West Scotland that shows that in the year from Sept 2012 to Sept 2013 the BBC and STV news have been intrinsically biased towards the union. Rather than report this and look into it's findings the BBC have covered it up, and even threatened Dr Robertson over it's findings. He also sent them a brilliant rebuttal. The study - worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com His reply to BBC after they tried to undermine it - derekbateman1.wordpress.com Chris - in that link, basically the Irish foreign minister's opinion was that the Scottish government plan to get EU membership would be negotiated from within the EU. The BBC reported it as the exact opposite. She actually stated that the BBC had misrepresented her. It took them 12 months to find themselves guilty, and then decided that that wasn't newsworthy and that they wouldn't be reporting on their own failings.
daviec Feb 2014 9:33pm, 7 Feb 2014 3,695 posts	0 daviec When Russia Today starts reporting on the bias in the BBC news you know something has gone wrong. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS6NPj5r__E
ChrisHB Feb 2014 9:48pm, 7 Feb 2014 10,071 posts	0 ChrisHB Thanks - I didn't notice anything about "within".
daviec Feb 2014 10:00pm, 7 Feb 2014 3,696 posts	0 daviec That's the Scottish government position, and Lucinda Creighton said her views aligned with that. BBC said she agreed with Michael Moore who said we'd be out and have to negotiate our way back in.
jono Feb 2014 12:24pm, 9 Feb 2014 14,693 posts	0 jono I was thinking about the Scottish question during my mornings run - irrespective of the outcome of vote - the nature of politics and the relationship between the various countries that make up the union will change, The status Quo has gone - its a shame that we haven't got the political leadership to realize this and offer leadership to the people. If the Scottish people vote yes - I can see a monetary union, a defense pact, same Monarch, retention of the Union Flag (as it represents the joining of the crowns) and close workings between the Scottish Governments / Westminster. If the Scottish people vote no - then it will have to be realized that a significant proportion of the Scottish people want a change - devo max. I believe that what people are scared off is loosing the unique relationship that we have within these islands between its various peoples - our cultural, political and everyday lives include people with English, Scottish,Welsh and Irish accents. we are joined by road,rail and sea links - there are currently projects to link up power from wind farms in various part of the British Isle's and I should imagine that if fracking ever gets of the ground the gas will be shared. Whilst I don't think that things will change there is always a danger that in future of some lunatic politician making a right mess of everything I believe that although we are and should remain part of the EU we in these islands have more in common than say someone from Luxembourg.
daviec Feb 2014 6:44pm, 9 Feb 2014 3,697 posts	0 daviec Can't argue with any of that jono particularly the point about status quo. There will be no status quo. Devo max will not happen. Devo something could. But it may or may not be better or worse than what we have currently. The main problem is that you've three main parties in London opposing indy, so you'd need them all to come to some sort of consensus about which powers are devolved. Devo max should really only leave defence, monetary and foreign policies with Westminster with everything else going to Holyrood including raising our own tax and keeping it in Scotland. Currently Labour can't even decide within their own party whether they'd offer income tax powers to Holyrood. If that's the level they're arguing at I can't see a decent offer of significant powers coming our way. And whilst I'd be more than happy with proper devo max, the one problem with that remains. Power devolved is power retained. It can be taken back at any time without our consent and we'd still be at the mercy of future UK governments. As recently happened with energy policy which was devolved, but Scottish policy on renewables doesn't fit with the UK policy of allowing foreign nations to build nuclear power stations. I wonder where the nuclear waste will go?