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Coronavirus discussion thread

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Grast_girl Feb 2021 2:01pm, 2 Feb 2021 1,959 posts	Quote Pin Grast_girl I agree with you Larkim, the issue is most of us don't know what things we do actually carry the most risk. As some have pointed out stairs and icy pavements can be more risky than running on trails, and that's without adding in individual capabilities. I would say climbing Ben Nevis in the middle of winter regardless of their abilities probably is going a bit far, as there are plenty of things that are completely out of their control (although their planning for and response to unexpected things will be much better if they're experienced). When I think of protecting the NHS, I'm thinking of my aunt, who looked fully worn out on Christmas Day and isn't even on the wards. That's who I'm protecting right now, but it doesn't mean that the NHS shouldn't get more money, staff and beds to work properly (especially mental health and rehabilitation).
swittle Feb 2021 2:06pm, 2 Feb 2021 72,698 posts	Quote Pin swittle ^^ +1 to that.
Fopp Feb 2021 2:07pm, 2 Feb 2021 24 posts	Quote Pin Fopp I just think it's nonsense the idea that there are more than a handful of adrenaline junkies out there senselessly putting their lives at risk. Accidents by definition are unexpected. If there's a strain on the NHS it's due to poor lifestyle choices, obesity, smoking, being old! The idea that you can help protect the NHS is just appealing to your emotions, it's not something you can practically help with. Don't most accidents happen in the home?
anthonyj89 Feb 2021 2:11pm, 2 Feb 2021 148 posts	Quote Pin anthonyj89 Fopp, I'm in agreement and have used the same argument elsewhere to people who say that off road/excessive/icy running is too risky in the current environment. The same people who are happy to risk the NHS throughout their lives via their daily unhealthy life choices.
Cheg Feb 2021 2:15pm, 2 Feb 2021 2,464 posts	Quote Pin Cheg Yeah I've not agreed with everything Fopp has said today but this is it. By these justifications we should be doing no DIY, no gardening, no nothing as they all carry risk no matter how minor. I disagree with the idea that people are incapable of assessing risk. I think a lot of us do have a good idea of the risks of things. If I say running on paths is a relatively low risk activity and have run 10,000 miles and never tripped over a tree root. Even if I trip over a tree root the very next day then I wasn't wrong in my risk assessment, I might just be a little sheepish. People say one thing then doing another and self justifying is one thing, but that isn't an inability to assess risk.
MarkyMarkMark (3M) Feb 2021 2:24pm, 2 Feb 2021 14,191 posts	Quote Pin MarkyMarkMark (3M) I do think the "Protect the NHS" campaign is a bit disingenuous in the long term. The main reason it needs that protection now is because public heath education and the NHS have been underinvested in/underfunded for years, by governments of all stripes. (IMHO, of course!) But the NHS does need to focus it's resources in CV-19 a bit now, so looking only at the "now" it's a perfectly reasonable slogan, and a certain amount of self-interest says I'm happy to do that! Staying "local" is no real guarantee of that. Staying local is more "risky" simply because there are more occasions for injury for most of us. Of my 3 visits to A&E in the last 5 years, one was the result of a cycling slip on black ice (on an allegedly treated cycle route.... hmph!), one a running trip over a tree root at the edge of a footpath, and one a result of an insect bite in my garden! I've not yet had to visit A&E for anything I was doing away from my very local area in my entire life (and I admit to doing some pretty daft things over my lifetime). So , yep, someone climbing Ben Nevis feels wrong, but in actual terms, it's possibly a minute drop in the ocean in terms of the statistics of cases treated overall.
larkim Feb 2021 2:25pm, 2 Feb 2021 13,401 posts	Quote Pin larkim My son had to start shielding when Lockdown 2 kicked in for a new reason that wasn't present during lockdown 1 and came as a surprise to us. I was quite adamant that we were going to insist that he continued at College and didn't shield, until a colleague with connections into the NHS simply said to me "Don't be that one case that tips your local hospital over the edge". That hit home for me, even if I recognise the hyperbole in it. It's unfair to pick on the adrenaline junkies too much, but they are an extreme example; that one afternoon / evening, the emergency services didn't need to be out collecting them from a hillside, their local hospital didn't need an extra case of trauma arriving. Their accident was foreseeable within the the range of reasonably likely outcomes from a winter mountaineering trip up somewhere like "Minus 2 Gully". Yes, 99 out of 100 times they'd be fine (or stats similar to that), but they didn't need to risk the 1. For practical purposes though most people aren't out being adrenaline junkies so really it makes no sense to focus on the winter climbers, the hang gliders, the base jumpers, and in that I agree with Fopp. As well as agreeing that pre-existing risks already accumulated such as obesity, smoking, ageing etc are far more important in terms of making oneself vulnerable to covid. But if I've got the choice between driving 10m on the motorway to go for a walk or walking around my local area, I'll chose to walk nearby saving myself from exposing myself to the risk of a car accident on the motorway, however unlikely that is. And I won't be going moutaineering or doing any parkour any time soon.
DocM Feb 2021 2:29pm, 2 Feb 2021 39,643 posts	Quote Pin DocM protect the NHS is about reducing the work load on the staff who are already working harder than usual, without breaks and with emotionally traumatising case loads. nobody should underestimate this. Disregard for this is quite frankly offensive
CreatureOfTheHill Feb 2021 2:50pm, 2 Feb 2021 636 posts	Quote Pin CreatureOfTheHill NHS != Hospitals There is a bit more to it than that. The fact that our GP surgery could quarantine a paper letter for 48 hours to be covid secure, and CAMHS could move online only, whilst our wife was being spat at by ASN pupils and we had to provide physical and emotional aid to a teenager who was self harming and expressing suicidal intentions. So while we support, protection of NHS services, some of it has gone into hiding behind the Covid barriers it put up. Risk of covid for us is extremely low, but we had to clean up the blood, and the risk of losing someone is very real. So we are still on the hill, in what people call risky situations. Tomorrow, we will be using our ice axe for example. But it is our only mental health mechanism, which we need when we are not on shift providing support. 24/7 someone needs to be there for her, and lets just say, the NHS portion that would help us as a family is AWOL. Anybody that thinks we should be not engaged in mountain activities at the moment because it is risky and it offends them. Well, what a wonderful place the moral high ground must be.
larkim Feb 2021 3:00pm, 2 Feb 2021 13,402 posts	Quote Pin larkim I don't think anyone said no to mountain activities CoTH. And you make a compelling case about maintaining activities for mental health reasons, which I've got very personal reasons for being very supportive of. But if you've not moderated some of your risk appetite due to current lockdown restrictions (and only during lockdown) I'd want to question why. Your points about how some other parts of the NHS have been affected are well made and shouldn't be ignored.