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Jan 2015
9:33am, 2 Jan 2015
904 posts
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stuart little
I think you're right SOD, though as you say it can be very hard to convince people that they need to build a base first. It isn't, however, quite that straightforward for me - I have runners coming along to my interval sessions who wouldn't otherwise run on that day, so do they get more benefit from 2 steady runs and an interval session or just 2 steady runs in a week? To accommodate these people, I make sure we do plenty of drills and form work in the warm ups and then the intervals are either very short (so speed / form work) or long enough to ensure that the newer runners in the group are essentially aerobic (it becomes an extended run walk session for them)
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Jan 2015
1:16pm, 12 Jan 2015
8,486 posts
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Wriggling Snake
An interesting last few posts there.
last week I started my session talking about pacing for intervals and long runs. I had recently noticed that the middle group (10k time 41-45 mins) was running 800m intervals as low as 6.40mm. Too fast. I also got them to tell me specifically tell me what even they are currently training for, mostly 10k, some HM 2 or 3 marathoners. I'd also notice that the paces were slowing at the end of each session, again an indication of running too fast early on.
I then told them about how the fast group do a lot of work as regards intervals with 600m 800m reps, with, at times loner efforts thrown in. All with less recovery.
So I set a session of 4 sets of 600m+200m jog+800m then 90s rest/walk. with the 600 and 800s at 10k pace, 10k pace being slightly above 7mm. I got a few moans of how do we get faster if we don't run as faster than our 10k pace, and how will this help as, so I insisted on them trying to take the recoveries and running to 10k pace, then tell me how they feel at the end.
One or two didn't the main thing they did was run off before the recovery period had finished, I could see their pace dropping at the end of each interval...however the main body of the group, possibly started too slowly, but got quicker at each effort, and the last 800m was down at 7.00mm.
basically I think it worked, have the second interval longer made each athlete think about their pace, some even said they could have done another set at a push. That is where they should be, able to do just a little more, it mean they're not trashed, and they are getting near their goal times. Each athlete is then a position to recover well and train again. So at the end I tried to explain how we will add extra total effort, in terms of longer intervals, and occasionally more sets, moving them incrementally up.
...I think one or two of the midle group are chomping at the bit to run with the fast group, but the front of that is 5.30mm!!!, so you can get drawn into running far toofast, I should know, I've run with them and done it myself.
anyway sessions to come will get the middle group with some 1k efforts in he middle and nearer 6-6.4k of total effort.
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Jan 2015
2:13pm, 12 Jan 2015
10,777 posts
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SODIron © 2002
interesting post there...a perfect exhibit of how difficult it can be to get the athletes to perform the prescribed session.
I have an interesting one at the moment...I've recently taken on another athlete for 1-2-1 coaching. The athlete has a recent history of injury, is not blessed with the perfect runners physique and has no real pace.
I've told the athlete from the get go that, due to the history of injury we're not looking at any pace/speed sessions for at least 3-4 weeks. It was a real tough sell....the athlete was keen to tell me how they'd been doing weekly speed sessions recently...infact right up to the most recent injury, so she was pretty confident she could cope with the demands of speed sessions.
It was very hard to make her realise that, like a house, she needed to build the foundations first. She's agreed to stick with the plan however, I suspect that I'll find her sneaking in the odd 'unprescribed' speed session over the coming weeks.
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Jan 2015
5:13pm, 12 Jan 2015
55,025 posts
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Gobi
Seen that before SoD
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Jan 2015
9:05pm, 12 Jan 2015
908 posts
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stuart little
Sounds very familiar SOD, pretty much all the athletes I've chatted to previously have liked to tell me all about their speed sessions and are reluctant to discuss their easy / steady runs (if there are any at all).
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Jan 2015
9:06am, 13 Jan 2015
8,503 posts
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Wriggling Snake
Yes, I have a similar thing. I have a runner that has just joined, about 5 or 6 weeks back, has run 3 races in that time, ran a 44.20 10k, which for a non runner is quite something (does lots of other fitness work), but is talking about joining the fast group (nominally sub 42 10k, but most are sub 38). I think the athlete needs a few more weeks in the middle group of decent intervals, but is already talking of moving up, and of not needing to do longer runs (not interested in "distance" running!!), but has also has said has sore knees....hold your horses, difficult to actually stop someone. We'lls ee this week.
I'm not coaching either.....that makes a change.
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Jan 2015
11:45am, 13 Jan 2015
13 posts
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JuliaD
Putting a sports psych spin on it (I'm not a qualified practitioner, just a recent MSc grad), can you ask your athlete's to identify someone they admire, and then see if you can see examples in Paula Radcliffe, Liz Colgan, whomever's autobiographies.... that give you a good and real example of how these elite's have started from a core base and why?
The other thing is to understand someone's intrinsic motivation for running at all. if you can tap in to what drives them, and align your coaching methodology with their goals so they have ownership over the sessions, you might find the compliance increases.
In other words, how can you make it seem likes it's *their* idea... what guided discovery and motivational questioning can you use to the lead their thinking down the path that you want them to travel?
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Jan 2015
11:46am, 13 Jan 2015
14 posts
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JuliaD
[Please ignore my rogue apostrophe! *blushes*]
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Jan 2015
11:52am, 13 Jan 2015
5,326 posts
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Autumnleaves
Completely different subject - I am running my first 'complete beginners' session on Saturday. Hoping to have about 6 or so (based on contact via a Facebook post). The plan is to base the session on Couch to 5k, week one obviously. In addition we'll do some warming up and cooling down, plus some basic stretches. Anyone any good tips? It looks as if I will have a mix of ages and both sexes.
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Jan 2015
12:38pm, 13 Jan 2015
8,507 posts
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Wriggling Snake
hmmm afraid not, I borached the idea of a total beginners group and it nver got off the ground.
I'd say though, good warm up, run walk, don't do distance do time.....
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