The War in Ukraine
2 lurkers |
43 watchers
Jul 2022
7:53pm, 22 Jul 2022
9,032 posts
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Northern Exile
Categorically not. This is extreme sabre-rattling. Highly unusual to have a collaborative pair like that acting overtly in our waters. They're both effectively the same class of submarine, Severodvinsk is their latest generation of HK, an updated Akula if you like. Both highly capable and very covert.
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Jul 2022
8:46pm, 22 Jul 2022
19,304 posts
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richmac
Would love to see one of those humiliated by the RN. LD hope they are out of everything. I'm more sure now that when the weakness of the Russian army was exposed NATO should have acted and rolled those fuckers 200 miles back into Russia instead of giving them time to learn how not to die. |
Jul 2022
11:59pm, 22 Jul 2022
1,238 posts
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fuzzyduck79
Fairly positive signs for Ukraine in some areas according to this thread: threadreaderapp.com The theme throughout seems to be Russia are strategically awful, but have far more ammunition than Ukraine does. Senior US defence official said today they believe Russia has committed 85% of their military force to this campaign. |
Jul 2022
8:44am, 25 Jul 2022
1,702 posts
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Muttley
The Ukrainians are making good use of the Himars and the Russians don't seem to have an answer to them. Yet. Some videos on social media of impressive explosion from alleged Himars strikes. I don't see why giving Kyiv the 300km-range munitions should be such an escalation. If Russia can just reach out and plant missiles anywhere in Ukraine, why not enable Ukraine to do something similar? |
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Jul 2022
11:02am, 25 Jul 2022
9,035 posts
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Northern Exile
I agree. Something murky going on in the background there.
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Jul 2022
11:25am, 25 Jul 2022
2,544 posts
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Flatlander
Did I not read/hear quite a while ago that a condition by the West of giving Ukraine these long range missiles is that they are not used to strike targets on Russian territory? The thought being that if Ukraine did so, the West would effectively be waging war by proxy on Russia, rather than "simply" helping Ukraine to defend itself. I know that it is a subtle difference in outlook, but it is an important one. Ukraine using its own existing missiles to strike Russian territory is a different matter. Yes, Russia might well just pull back its major supply depots and command centres to its own country, but even would weaken the Russian "not-a-war" effort due to disruption of supply and command chains. [Not a military expert] |
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Jul 2022
11:25am, 25 Jul 2022
1,703 posts
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Muttley
It seems the Russians are planning some more of their so-called "referenda" so that occupied parts of Ukraine "decide" they want to be part of Russia. That opens up the interesting prospect of any part of Ukraine not under Kyiv's rule being "Russia". So what would be the difference between firing at Kherson or Sevastopol? Indeed, they've already struck targets in Russia proper, places like Belgorod.
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Jul 2022
11:53am, 25 Jul 2022
2,547 posts
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Flatlander
By "Russian territory" above I was referring to parts of the country of Russia, rather than Russian-held land in Ukraine. Sorry if that was not clear. Any Russian-referenda-decided-as-Russia parts of Ukraine would not be recognised as part of Russia by any country in the world apart from Russia and its allies, so would remain legitimate targets for Western supplied Ukrainian missiles. Sevastopol is in the illegally annexed Crimean region of Ukraine, so could be be a legitimate target, although perhaps not a strategic one as things stand. |
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Jul 2022
12:49pm, 25 Jul 2022
1,704 posts
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Muttley
Sevastopol is the home port and HQ of the Black Sea Fleet. A very nice strategic target, as is that bridge ... 
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Jul 2022
12:58pm, 25 Jul 2022
2,548 posts
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Flatlander
I shall await some Ukrainian missile attacks on the Black Sea Fleet.
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