The War in Ukraine
2 lurkers |
43 watchers
Aug 2023
10:02pm, 15 Aug 2023
38,668 posts
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LazyDaisy
Conscription is necessary because their country has been attacked by a foreign power. Their civil liberties would be considerably more restricted if Russia were to take over the country.
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Aug 2023
6:17pm, 16 Aug 2023
9,826 posts
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Fields
I suppose that’s an easy argument to make to when it’s not you being called up. Necessary obviously includes action up to abducting people off the street. Still at least they can be grateful they’re not under Russian rule as they bleed to death on the battlefield |
Aug 2023
7:27pm, 16 Aug 2023
22,884 posts
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richmac
Funny isn't it, all those people draft dodging, non of them are heading to a new life in Russia to embrace Putin are they ? They didn't want Russian rule, they seem happy for other people to do the fighting. Think there maybe a word for that. |
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Aug 2023
7:46pm, 16 Aug 2023
9,829 posts
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Fields
Such binary language. Being a conscientious objector is hardly draft-dodging. You wouldn’t call a vegetarian a meat-dodger; that’s arguably a position taken by conscience too. Anyway, as time passes and the summer offensive stagnates, there’s a chance NATO lose interest and suggest a peace for land deal with NATO patronage to prevent further Russian operations. See this NATO official who has today aired publicly a strategy clearly being discussed privately. theguardian.com There will certainly be factions within NATO member states who will want a swift end to the war in order to reap the commercial benefits from the rebuild. I can see a lot of farmland being sold / privatised and bought by western interests. |
Aug 2023
9:16am, 17 Aug 2023
2,601 posts
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Muttley
A good summing up of where we are now. twitter.com |
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Aug 2023
10:46am, 17 Aug 2023
22,894 posts
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richmac
They're not wrong. I now worry that Ukraine is finding out the true strength of Russia. which is just in sheer numbers. Ukraine has better quality apart from in the air, but can only attack on a narrow front. Russia can attack allover the place with poorly trained soldiers & Ukraine has to react watering down what they want to do. And that's what leads to Ukraine having to conscript as many as possible, just to have some sort of defence. |
Aug 2023
12:54pm, 21 Aug 2023
9,754 posts
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Northern Exile
Actually it is why I’m posting here as this thread is titled “the war in Ukraine” and conscription is relevant to the war.What I would do is not the point, but to satisfy your question, I’d refuse to fight, having no wish to kill my fellow humans. Although I'm loathe to admit it, something Fields (or whoever it is he's pretending to be) posted the other day had me pondering for a while and I thought I might post here, seeing as [I imagine] most people reading this forum are concerned about the ongoing hostilities in Ukraine and what might lead from that. Specifically, what he said was that he no wish "to kill my fellow humans". You know, in my long career I hardly met anyone who does. Most people in the forces initially joined up with a view to adventure and an alternate career structure, however as time progressed a significant element of serving the Crown and protecting the country creeps into a person's rationale and if a given situation or operation had to resort to violence, there would be no pleasure in any human casualties that ensued. I had the misfortune to serve in the Falklands for three consecutive years (82/83/84) and bore witness to some things I'd really rather have not, for a while I was a very angry young man, but never did I want to kill anyone, nor did anyone of the men I served with. As time progressed, I became one of those rare "purple hatted" individuals who had served with all elements of the British Forces (including SF) and believe me, it's my honest belief that you would be hard-pressed to find a single man or woman who wants to kill anyone. One of my old instructors was an SBS Warrant Officer and he'd had to take life on a couple of occasions, it weighed extremely heavily on him and believe me, he was possibly the toughest bloke I have ever met. I've known a few SAS psychos who had they not ended up in the army would undoubtedly have been locked up in one of our popular prisons, but even though they liked hurting things (and each other sometimes) I believe they had the basis respect for life that underpins any decent society. I suppose people like Fields use such words to cover up a basic lack of moral fibre and I sort of understand that, I remember on my Divisional Officer's course - one of the best bits of training I ever received - we were taught that it's important to understand and impress upon those in our charge that it's not for us to question the structure or society or type of individual whose interests we ostensibly serve, that's the governments job - it's simply for us to get on with it and defend. So yes, although I understand that conscientious objectors exist and and that they refuse to defend the freedoms that their country affords them, it's hard to have much sympathy. I suppose, when it comes right down to it, someone has to do the dirty jobs. |
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Aug 2023
1:08pm, 21 Aug 2023
2,607 posts
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Muttley
It's easy to be a conscientious objector when the invasion, mass murder, rape, torture, looting, deportations etc are happening somewhere else and to someone else.
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Aug 2023
5:05pm, 21 Aug 2023
22,977 posts
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richmac
bbc.co.uk Nice to see Putin failing in space as well as Ukraine |
Aug 2023
6:29pm, 21 Aug 2023
9,956 posts
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GordonG
I'm surprised Ukraine don't troll Russia by saying one of their drones took it out 🤣
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