The War in Ukraine
1 lurker |
43 watchers
Aug 2023
6:34pm, 21 Aug 2023
9,957 posts
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GordonG
on the other hand, why bother when you can claim the real thing: bbc.co.uk |
Aug 2023
7:15pm, 21 Aug 2023
25,462 posts
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Bazoaxe
I can in part see where fields is coming from. My issue though is putin is the root cause and that’s where efforts should be focussed. If Ukraine roll over and allow him what he wants, then where is next? It would not stop at Ukraine If fields had some ideas on how we get the aggressor to back down, that would be part of a debate that could be had. |
Aug 2023
11:34am, 22 Aug 2023
9,842 posts
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Fields
A lot of words about conscientious objectors in post 9754 on the last page and the conclusion is that they lack moral fibre (which I believe was a phrase used 80 years ago to describe people with PTSD - although perhaps it’s meant in that post in a different way) and they are shirkers. I don’t see this discussion going any further and have no real desire to hear any more outdated or reactionary views. All I’ll say is that there are plenty of ways to support one’s country in a war without being part of a military force - ambulance drivers for example - though equally being lined up against a wall might well be my fate. |
Aug 2023
1:48pm, 22 Aug 2023
9,755 posts
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[Removed by moderator] |
Aug 2023
5:18pm, 22 Aug 2023
4,135 posts
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Pou Pou LePhoõk
Mohammed Ali was a CO. And he didn't lack moral fibre. And there are many more examples. There's a lot that can be said for it (CO), but views against it are often so entrenched that any debate quickly disintegrates. |
Aug 2023
5:38pm, 22 Aug 2023
22,995 posts
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richmac
Want you lot to pause a moment - consider this the guardian article posted to kick this spur of this debate. Go read it. At no point do any of the Ukrainians interviewed in it claim to be a CO, not a single one. And I don't think the article refers to them as such. That articles criticism of Ukrainian conscription methods has been hijacked and mis construed to repesent those who see it as other peoples job to die for them as CO's. I imagine it will be claimed it's implied etc etc but if this is so it's an amazingly poor bit of journalism not to speak about why these people object to defending their nation. Sorry but what we have here, as is often the case is a set of conflated issues manipulated to support the posters own view point. |
Aug 2023
11:33am, 23 Aug 2023
45,983 posts
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EvilPixie
President Putin now claims some countries "promote colonialism" which led to a "dire crisis" in Ukraine. He says Russia's actions in Ukraine are in response to a war "unleashed" by the West. He says their "aspiration" to "preserve their hegemony in the world", led to a coup d'etat in Ukraine (in 2014). "Russia decided to support people that fight for their culture, for their traditions, for their language, and for their future," he claims. He says Russia's actions in Ukraine are desigined to put "put an end to the war that was unleashed by the West against people in Donbas [in eastern Ukraine]". |
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Aug 2023
12:12pm, 23 Aug 2023
23,014 posts
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richmac
He's lying. The Seperatists in the East are were backed & probably agitated by Moscow. Until the Russian invasion, Ukraine had only soviet era armaments, hardly the west unleashing anything. Remember it was Moscow backed troops that shot down MH17 & the west that tried to appease Putin after the Crimea annexation. Also, promoting colonialism, Putin is the only guy here trying to takeover another country. If you had to give a reason other than Putin is batshit crazy you'd conclude it's about control of the eastern European plain to give Russia a narrower front to defend if attacked from the west, but it isn't it's about 1 mans ego. |
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Aug 2023
1:17pm, 23 Aug 2023
9,846 posts
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Fields
Russia has historically been just as colonial as every other major western country historically (and NATO latterly) IMO - how else do you become a country that stretches from the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea and from the Arctic to the Pacific Oceans.
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Aug 2023
6:08pm, 23 Aug 2023
4,226 posts
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Bob!
Has Putin run out of windows for people to fall out of? news.sky.com |
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