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The vaporfly thread

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larkim
larkim
Mar 2021
10:44am, 27 Mar 2021
13,910 posts
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larkim
29 minutes into this episode of Marathon Talk is a discussion with Steph about her shoes marathontalk.com and noting that she doesn't have a kit sponsor.

She wore 4% for London and didn't find any difference between those and the Next%. She likes the shoes and they "work for her" was the comment. But she is confident that her times would be more or less the same in a similarly confortable shoes (though that has no evidence base!)
AJLB
AJLB
Mar 2021
11:08am, 27 Mar 2021
230 posts
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AJLB
I wheeled out my old 4%s for a 4k effort. They're closing in on 500 miles, but still pretty bouncing and very comfy. Sadly my toes are coming through the uppers now :(
SPR
SPR
Mar 2021
12:17pm, 27 Mar 2021
33,741 posts
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SPR
My first pair of Reebok Floatride Run Fast Pros have felt harsh (at least initially) on my last couple of runs in them almost like the cushioning has lost some resilience. I have had some tiredness in my legs on those runs given I'm at my highest monthly mileage ever so it's possible my legs are just currently sensitive to limited cushioning but I think I'd be breaking out a new pair for a race. Potentially shows that small amounts of pebax will die quickly. I should track mileage in my next pair.

Larkim - Of course the comfort with speed is exactly the point of the Nikes; that's exactly the step forward that's been made. Hoka got the comfort in ages ago but no elites were queuing up to run in those and no one was trying to copy them for speed.
K5 Gus
K5 Gus
Mar 2021
8:16am, 30 Mar 2021
4,434 posts
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K5 Gus
Interesting direction taken by ASICS - whilst developing their new super racer, they discovered that to increase pace some runners increase their stride length proportionally more than their cadence, and others vice versa, and they have created 2 super shoes with differing geometries, for the 2 types of runners.

Spotting this difference during development means the 2 shoes are at differing stages of development so just the "stride" version available initially, called the Metaspeed Sky ( looks great too ! ), the "cadence" version Metaspeed Edge to come later

roadtrailrun.com
SPR
SPR
Mar 2021
9:16am, 30 Mar 2021
33,770 posts
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SPR
I think different strategies for increasing pace was already known. This is from 11 years ago for example: scienceofrunning.com

The specific numbers are interesting though so would like to see the research and number of runners included plus how much deviation there was. Also interesting that they think that means different shoes are needed though. Presumably it's about stopping the stack height inhibiting your base strategy and less drop = more stability so more time for vertical force, while more drop gets you to toe off quicker.
fuzzyduck79
fuzzyduck79
Mar 2021
11:26am, 30 Mar 2021
132 posts
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fuzzyduck79
Good detail in that review, especially the soles - think I would trash the Asics shoe very quickly around the front edges with all those holes, any scuffing could break that up rapidly.
SailorSteve
SailorSteve
Mar 2021
1:51pm, 30 Mar 2021
1,955 posts
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SailorSteve
Interesting Gus. I just need to work out which shoes would be optimal for 8-10 miles forefoot with extended cadence, 10-18 forefoot/mid foot with 18-26 mid/heel/shortened cadence/survival shuffle. Choices, choices.
J2R
J2R
Mar 2021
2:01pm, 30 Mar 2021
3,526 posts
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J2R
Did the first proper test of my Saucony Endorphin Pro shoes today in a club challenge, a strava segment. Only 750m, slightly downhill, so nothing like a real race, but I knocked a few seconds off my previous attempt and really felt the springiness of the shoes was helping. Inspires confidence for a 10K coming up in 4 weeks time.
J2R
J2R
Mar 2021
6:43pm, 30 Mar 2021
3,529 posts
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J2R
I'm sure they know what they're doing, but I'm wondering if ASICS' strategy with the Metaspeeds might backfire on them a little, by confusing people. Which one to go for? I wouldn't know myself, and I'm a pretty analytical runner. The fear would be getting something unsuitable without knowing it.
SPR
SPR
Mar 2021
8:44pm, 30 Mar 2021
33,773 posts
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SPR
J2R - I did think that the amateur runner might get confused. As I said, I knew about the different strategies for increasing pace before this and I'd say I'm a cadence runner but haven't done the maths on that and it's possible that's just the obvious number I see. Also it's possible that the shoe still doesn't quite work.

SS - So you deliberately change strategies in a marathon? When you said extended/ shortened cadence, I presume you mean stride? Do you have the numbers to show the difference? Have I made up that you don't wear a watch for your races?

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