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Nov 2011
8:55am, 8 Nov 2011
16,700 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
That's interesting hellen. Are you doing some of the sessions too fast, do you think? There should only be one MP, tempo or intervals per week in the P&D schedule. Everything else should be pretty slow n easy (or that's how I read it anyway!) :-)G
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Nov 2011
9:12am, 8 Nov 2011
11,685 posts
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hellen
Last Sept I got injured (2010) then was on and off injury. Did no speedwork til end of Auguest this year. Started with 1 tempo run a week which was just over 8mm, I thought that was my HM pace but it is now my MP!! So not to fast, did 3-4 miles. Then after a few weeks did some intervals. A few weeks of 10 x 1min fast. Initially was doing 7.xx as being cautious. Then did some 400s and then 5 x 800 a couple of times. No more than 1 session a week, the latest being at 6.40mm. I have raced 4 marathons in 7 weeks!! That is why I feel ready for a break now. With those faster sessions some weeks I was doing tempo/MP only and some weeks 1 lot of intervals as well (as described above).
In the past I have done 1 tempo, 1 interval per week and sometimes progressive LR but have always felt I peaked too soon.
I think that because I do a lot of marathons/ultras I cant cope with the normal volume of speedwork. I am more thinking what I should be doing in the next few months in that inbetween stage. I will see what P&D suggest.
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Nov 2011
9:21am, 8 Nov 2011
16,703 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Ah, sorry, I was confusing threads hellen! There is a P&D thread and I thought I was posting on that and was confused about why you would be tired and also, hence referring to the recovery phase. On P&D no one does 4 marathons in 7 weeks. I rather suspect that's what's making you a bit tired!!
You ultra and multi-marathoners are bonkers (in a very good and admirable way!) Just take a break!
Seriously though - P&D says don't race, basically! Or races to be very carefully placed in your training plan, because they take so much out of you (unless you are only doing them as gentle training runs, but then at mara distance they are still v. long).
I am much more conservative. 2 target marathons a year. All training is planned around them. If there is an ultra that I want to do and I can sort of call it 2 long runs, then I'll fit it in (e.g. D33 next year is 6 weeks before VLM, sshould be OK). But if it's something I fancy, but will mess up my target marathon, I won't do it. Not everyone's cup of tea though, I admit. Good luck with the rest! :-)G
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Nov 2011
10:04am, 8 Nov 2011
11,686 posts
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hellen
happy, I have followed P&D in the past so know what you are talking about!!
I know why I am tired this time round but in the past I have also got quite tired. I didnt get tired when I was trotting out 60 mile weeks with no speedwork all at steady pace!
My Q is more about what to do in the next couple of months to keep things ticking over. I dont want to lose where I am at now but dont want to get too tired either. I was still planning on my 60 mile weeks but wanting to know what the mininimum amount of speedwork is that I should be doing to keep fresh before I start doing a bit more in Jan/Feb time.
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Nov 2011
10:10am, 8 Nov 2011
16,705 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Well, P&D (sorry to keep going back to it, but I've only really done 2 types of plan, Furman and P&D) says that you only do intervals in last 4 weeks before race, tempos in 4 week block before that, and before that, only base + some MP. So it starts slow and I would say that the general principle is base can be all slow, with no speedwork. You only do the speedwork as a sharpener before the race (in order to "peak").
During my current "rest" (will be a total of 5 weeks after last marathon that I start 18 week plan for next marathon) I have done 1 week zero running, then will gradually build up to 50 odd miles/week, but won't do any speed work. I might do the odd 5K or a slightly quicker club run, but not push myself to do speed as part of training in any way. Then the first 3 weeks of P&D, out of 170 miles has only 2 x 4 mile LT bits and one 8 mile at MP. So pretty much easy running! :-)G
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Nov 2011
10:20am, 8 Nov 2011
11,687 posts
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hellen
Do you find that this system works for you ie not a great deal of speedwork/tempo stuff?
My recent Pbs have been done with little speed training BUT I think I lot of the improvement is due to losing over a stone and doing a lot of long stuff. Now I want to improve more I cant do ever more long stuff and I cant lose that much more weight so need to look at the training!
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Nov 2011
10:29am, 8 Nov 2011
16,706 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Just went 3:05 at Newcastle 10 days ago, a 4.5 min PB and this after returning from injury in 2010. I followed the up to 55 mile per week plan religiously, only 5 runs per week, only 3 long runs of 20 miles (lots of 16-19 too though) and that minimal speed work. So yes, worked for me. :-)G
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Nov 2011
10:38am, 8 Nov 2011
11,688 posts
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hellen
well done on the PB, sub 3 next stop? What you doing on the 3.30 thread???? Just here to be helpful and offer advice 
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Nov 2011
10:59am, 8 Nov 2011
16,707 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
I started on 3:30 hellen. I was 3:42 after first mara and was hoping for 3:25 for second. Training went better than expected and late on I found out that 3:15 for over 40 Male was GFA for London, so I hoped to get to that. And I got 3:12. So I've been on 3:15 thread since then. But look back in here every now and again to yeah, offer some advice, I guess. Or just a view, really. Not advice, I suppose.
I do think that there is a lot to be said for periodization. P&D is very much split into 4 week cycles, with cut back programmed in, base, then endurance (LT), then speed (VO2 max) etc. and it tells you when you can and can't race. I find it helps me or I go too quick in long runs, or I race too hard or I get tired or worse, injured.
Best of luck with training. You're obviously doing big mileage and endurance/ultras is great, though trickier to change/improve pace? Look at Naomi P - lots of marathons (every weekend) but tends to do it at all at 4 hour pace (which is awesome, but then going 3:30 she found harder). Anyhoo, best of luck with it. When is your target marathon? Spring? VLM or Brighton? :-)G
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Nov 2011
11:12am, 8 Nov 2011
16,708 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
You need to get the thread admin to get more names and get it up to to date in the header with target races etc. Makes it a better community! :-)G
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