The Sub 3:15 Marathon Thread
3 lurkers |
334 watchers
Nov 2023
11:23am, 24 Nov 2023
43,310 posts
|
SPR
larkim what does tempo mean for PD? Is it interchangeable with threshold? If so, agree. If it means race tempo then it's coming back to the volume point I made in my last post. Doesn't P&D have different plans for different target times? |
Nov 2023
11:39am, 24 Nov 2023
2,738 posts
|
riggys99
Tempo runs in P+D are also called lactate threshold runs. They says this is 15k to half marathon pace. Recommends faster runners do it at half marathon pace and slower runners at 15k pace. The plans in P+D are based on weekly mileage and then number of weeks you want to train (18 or 12) |
|
Nov 2023
11:45am, 24 Nov 2023
43,311 posts
|
SPR
Interesting riggys99. If threshold is hour pace, then telling someone to do over an hour at it as larkim describes is mad.
|
Nov 2023
11:50am, 24 Nov 2023
3,093 posts
|
Big_G
On Zwift for cycling, efforts are measured in time and power. IE, I have power numbers ranging from 5secs up to 40mins so my 5sec W/Kg is known, as is my 40mins W/Kg (which are obviously very different), and a range of times between those two. Speed and distance doesn’t get a mention. Zwift training workouts are also based on time (for cycling, Indon’t know for running). Stryd for running also has stats and power numbers based on time, although I personally don’t rate Stryd as a device. Different metrics for different things I know, but still a valid mechanism of measuring progress and setting sessions. Going back to the session last night, I found something else interesting. He is coaching someone who he was convinced was capable of a sub-3. All the data there showed him that, but she wasn’t sure. However, he told her he was certain of it, and told her the time he thought she was capable of, and she went and did it within 30secs. He was just saying that her knowing for sure she could do it in turn helped her do it, gave her the confidence she could do it, and she pushed through. Obviously all the other factors that can go wrong on race day have to go right, and she has to pace it correctly etc, but I can imagine a coach saying, with evidence, “I know you can do XYZ” must be a boost. I’ve never had a coach but I’m just imagining getting that information beforehand from a trusted third party could be very useful. |
Nov 2023
11:54am, 24 Nov 2023
3,572 posts
|
tipsku
That's why I didn't do the full distance at their tempo pace. I either dropped the longer LT sections to marathon pace or I split them up into intervals, e.g. instead of doing 6 miles at my LT pace, I did 5x 2000m with 3 minute recoveries. The longest session I did was 7k, I think. I didn't want to do more than 50-60% of race duration in one go in a training session. I've done several 1 hour races so I know the race pace I can maintain for an hour which often is said to be the equivalent of your LT pace. I get to 8 miles on the track or 7:30 pace. I chose the dosage of running at LT so that the overall volume of the plan remained doable and I wasn't too sore or too tired to complete my sessions. I have to add that I raced a lot more than what the plan wanted me to do. So I used some of those races to run at LT and not all out. Those were up to 10k. If I raced in a given week, I substituted the LT session and used the race. |
|
Nov 2023
11:55am, 24 Nov 2023
2,739 posts
|
riggys99
If I take my last half that I did in around 1:31 I went through 7 miles in 47.47 so 7 miles at that pace is well under the hour. My pace for the half was quicker than the pace I got when I did a LT test.
|
|
Nov 2023
11:56am, 24 Nov 2023
2,740 posts
|
riggys99
There is nothing wrong in splitting LT sessions the 80/20 book as quite a few sessions like that. Calls then cruise intervals. Uses them to build up to a continuous tempo run. The 80/20 book uses time for all runs apart from long runs
|
Nov 2023
12:31pm, 24 Nov 2023
22,691 posts
|
larkim
My example was pretty polarised, but I think that is my point. Book authors rarely set of different plans for different places beyond relatively small references to "slower" and "faster" runners as P&D does. Now it might be a rarity for a 60min 10k runner to be picking up P&D to plan their marathon training, but if they did they would be being asked to run over an hour at a tempo, and just about every definition of that would say that that cannot be possible. Even their intervals at 3-5k paces would be potentially addressing different systems in a slower runner. 5x 3-4 minutes at close to VO2Max would be a better description of their intervals, but if you're not sub 20 then 5x 6-8 minutes at VO2Max is a harder ask. We're well served here as the plans are more or less written for us. |
|
Nov 2023
12:36pm, 24 Nov 2023
2,743 posts
|
riggys99
I agree the plans in P+D but then again the book is called advanced marathoning and probably not aimed at a beginner. Looking at faster road running half marathon plans the tempo runs in their are split and based on time rather than distance until one of the later ones that is 40 mins |
Nov 2023
12:38pm, 24 Nov 2023
15,962 posts
|
jda
Problem for me with using a coach would be that I trust myself above any coach  I certainly learnt a lot from some good ones in the past, but that's just supporting my point! |
Related Threads
-
RW sub3/3.15
Jan 2025
-
Sub 3Hr Marathon
Jan 2025
-
The sub 3.30 marathon thread
Jan 2025
-
Sub-4hr marathon support and celebration thread
Dec 2024
-
Sub 2:30 Marathon
Oct 2024
-
The sub 2.45 marathon thread
May 2024
-
The sub 3.45 Marathon Thread
Oct 2023
-
The sub-5 hour marathon thread
Apr 2022
-
5:43 Marathon to Sub 5hrs
Dec 2018
-
Sub 3.05 Marathon Plan / Advise - Help please
Aug 2016