The Sub 3:15 Marathon Thread
333 watchers
Nov 2023
8:27pm, 21 Nov 2023
43,294 posts
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SPR
Good article larkim, read it before but had forgotten a lot of the info there. tipsku there are 6 zones but in the Seiler video LT1 is the end of Z2/ start of Z3 while it is end of Z1/ start of Z2 in Larkim's zones. LT2 is in the same place from a zone perspective but the threshold zone (yellow) in the video is what is termed sweetspot in Larkim's zones. On the face of it, that means more yellow zone training for Larkim In terms of the intervals, what was Garmin's description? I know that Garmin can get speeds wrong sometimes so description might be better to understand what it's trying to get at. VO2 Max into sprints with 1 min recovery between all seems intense though. Threshold into VO2 Max seem more manageable (or somewhere in that range). With that type of session, I'd expect the recovery would get slower as the speed increases to manage the session. Was there any recovery guidance? |
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Nov 2023
8:29pm, 21 Nov 2023
43,295 posts
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SPR
larkim think once you have a number, it's natural to want to verify its accuracy. Maybe pose the question to the testers.
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Nov 2023
9:44am, 22 Nov 2023
3,078 posts
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Big_G
I’ve been vaguely aware over the years of some USA courses being net downhill but valid for qualification into other races. Just had a look at this. 4000+ft drop in the last 17 miles alone! Wow! Downhill running is tough though, but that’s a fast course, right? Don’t know the details and only relaying this second hand as I’ve not researched it, but this is valid for Boston and New York qualifiers. Apparently, prior to 2020 it wasn’t valid for Berlin, but since then Berlin have apparently changed to accept any USATF course. This wouldn’t be valid for a WR though. runrevel.com “The marathon begins at the Greyback Amphitheater near the base of Sugarloaf Mountain, directly south of the famous Big Bear Mountain Ski Resort. Standing at 6,629 ft above sea level and enveloped in a blanket of pre-dawn stars, runners will feel a world away from nearby Redlands, California. The course begins with rolling hills for the first four miles as runners make their way down historic CA 38 towards Redlands with the rising sun at their backs. Upon reaching the mountain community of Angelus Oaks at mile nine, runners will enjoy a net elevation drop of 4,223 ft in the last 17 miles of the race, an average of a 4.7% downhill grade. Along the way runners will enjoy stunning views of Constance Peak to the west and Anderson Peak to the east. The course gradually turns southeast in the direction of San Gorgonio Mountain, the tallest peak in Southern California, before heading west through the Mountain Home Village community. After passing the half marathon point, runners are treated to a second half elevation drop of 3,171 feet and only 10 feet of elevation gain! The final miles take runners through the streets of Redlands, all the while continuing a strong downhill slope to the finish line at the Redlands Sports Park. Runners will get an extra boost from the 443-foot net loss in elevation in the last 3 miles alone! REVEL Big Bear is the fastest and most beautiful marathon in California!” |
Nov 2023
10:52am, 22 Nov 2023
15,947 posts
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jda
I think there’s also one in Colorado that basically goes down hill from the continental divide and boasts of being a good Boston qualifier. Running it would be fast enough (though surely needs practice) but the wheelchair race must be an absolute blast! (Don’t know if they actually have a wheelchair race on it.) |
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Nov 2023
1:24pm, 22 Nov 2023
3,080 posts
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Big_G
There’s more benefit from running a course like that than from wearing any supershoe, I’d wager. I think there are a number of courses similar to this that are used for BQs.
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Nov 2023
1:52pm, 22 Nov 2023
22,671 posts
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larkim
Maybe it's just because our landscape doesn't allow for such descending marathons, but it does amaze me that an achievement as "prized" in the US as a BQ seems to be sullied by the acceptance of such downhill marathons as qualifiers. Obviously it would be hard running net 4.7% for 17m downhill, and quads would be trashed at the end (imagine the DOMS!) but it does look like a soft way to get 3-5 minutes (maybe more) benefit over a distance compared to a flat race. |
Nov 2023
2:28pm, 22 Nov 2023
48,576 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
There are rules in the UK - Edinburgh marathon and Loch Ness marathon are both net downhill but within the 1m per 1000m (so 42m max drop, I think?).  G
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Nov 2023
2:43pm, 22 Nov 2023
22,672 posts
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larkim
I doubt LN is within that 1m/1000m net descent, is it? That rule is only for WR certifiable courses anyway though, I think Po10 has a slightly higher threshold before it flags a course as being net downhill (screenshot below). |
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Nov 2023
2:47pm, 22 Nov 2023
15,949 posts
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jda
The problem is not so much the race itself (people can race where and when they want as far as I'm concerned) but Boston accepting it as a legitimate qualification.
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Nov 2023
2:47pm, 22 Nov 2023
48,578 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Let's see what Fetch says... Elevation Asc 291m, Range 302m, Flat prediction 3:01:03 fetcheveryone.com/t-8188140 308 down to 8, so 300m drop. More than 5m per km! G
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