The Sub 3:15 Marathon Thread
1 lurker |
334 watchers
Nov 2023
9:09am, 20 Nov 2023
109 posts
|
SJA
Does the lactate threshold heart rate match your Garmin? I only ask because your max heart rate matches mine (my lactate threshold hr is 165) so I think I could use the advice on your report myself 
|
Nov 2023
9:17am, 20 Nov 2023
22,653 posts
|
larkim
I've not (yet) done a LT test with the Garmin only - might try to get around to that one day this week as I've only just dug out the HR strap that would let me do it.
|
Nov 2023
9:30am, 20 Nov 2023
15,930 posts
|
jda
There may be some modest differences Bowman 🇸🇪 but I don't believe that running can generate all that much more power than cycling or I'd be much faster running up hill than I am cycling (work is primarily done against gravity in both cases). The garmin numbers are roughly 50% up on what I'd expect.
|
Nov 2023
12:09pm, 20 Nov 2023
3,183 posts
|
Bowman 🇸🇪
running can generate all that much more power than cycling or I'd be much faster running up hill than I am cycling Yes ok, i see what you mean
|
Nov 2023
12:36pm, 20 Nov 2023
43,284 posts
|
SPR
There was a Peter Weyand (sprinting/ running technique research expert) pod discussion on this, basically says it's not worth trying quantify academically. May be useful if it correlates with metabolic power. tipsku interesting, those zones look complicated. I've never used or looked much into LTHR zones but the premise makes sense. |
|
Nov 2023
1:00pm, 20 Nov 2023
15,933 posts
|
jda
I agree SPR, I'm just making the point that I believe my garmin's estimate of power is off by a significant factor, ditto VO2max. When I did some testing on a cycling power meter I got power numbers much closer to what I expect (based also on historic testing by a good lab), and a standard formula for VO2max then gives a number in the low 50s. Not that the precise values really matter.
|
|
Nov 2023
1:20pm, 20 Nov 2023
22,658 posts
|
larkim
One thing I'm currently digesting is the HR zones that the session on Saturday suggested. They do feel more practically useful at the top end compared to the usual %ages of HRMax or HRR. Or maybe I've just been using rubbish ones myself. Doesn't change anything at the bottom end, but quantifying the top end neatly is what I'm currently liking / mulling over Z1 *Fat burning (to 77% HRMax) Z2 *Aerobic conditioning (to 83% HRMax) Z3 *Sweetspot, upper border close to threshold (to 90% HRMax) Z4 *20-60 minute output (to 93% HRMax) Z5 *3-10 minute output (to 100% HRMax) They have a separate Z6 for *1 minute max and shorter efforts which isn't defined by HR. |
|
Nov 2023
2:04pm, 20 Nov 2023
43,285 posts
|
SPR
I think the Z1 at 77% HRmax would be about 70% HRR? so fits with easy running. Maybe the sweetspot is higher than would be expected but that's personalised based on what you have. Hadd for example works at 80% HRMax for LT initially and can go up IIRC correctly as you continue to hold steady. The chart I put up yesterday had it at 85% while the video in the link has it around 87%. Certainly what you have personalised makes sense to use. What are the Wmax% in the chart? £90 for the testing seems very good for accurate numbers, thought it would be a lot more. At that price, regular testing could be worth it if you find it useful for anchoring your training. Did you see my questions across the page? |
|
Nov 2023
2:12pm, 20 Nov 2023
43,286 posts
|
SPR
jdawayinamanger makes sense, although wouldn't any standard formula be taking into account your cycling efficiency? Your vdot for marathon is 58.4 although your 5k vdot is 55.5.
|
|
Nov 2023
2:42pm, 20 Nov 2023
22,660 posts
|
larkim
Sorry if I missed those. Yes, ref the zones I think you're right - a bit of confusing terminology when either looking at things from a LT perspective or simply HRs. In terms of much change? No, probably not other than emphasising how important it might be for 5m-10k sorts of distances to makes sure I do some work in those tempo ranges more often. wMax% is the speed as a percentage of max aerobic speed (defined as 17.5mph in there, which I'd reckon is pretty close to my mile pace, there or thereabouts). For me the 77% z1 keeps me firmly in where the top of my personal Z2 would be (up to about 140bpm) so no change to anything I do do. The store charges £60 for either LT or VO2Max; £90 for both as a package. Definitely seems reasonably priced. I am curious about the absolute VO2Max value though - it does feel too high, but ultimately it doesn't massively impact what I'll be doing, other than emphasising that I am aerobically well trained so finding ways to use that good aerobic stuff is the key. |
Related Threads
-
RW sub3/3.15
Jan 2025
-
Sub 3Hr Marathon
Jan 2025
-
The sub 3.30 marathon thread
Jan 2025
-
Sub-4hr marathon support and celebration thread
Dec 2024
-
Sub 2:30 Marathon
Oct 2024
-
The sub 2.45 marathon thread
May 2024
-
The sub 3.45 Marathon Thread
Oct 2023
-
The sub-5 hour marathon thread
Apr 2022
-
5:43 Marathon to Sub 5hrs
Dec 2018
-
Sub 3.05 Marathon Plan / Advise - Help please
Aug 2016