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May 2020
10:13am, 15 May 2020
30,134 posts
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SPR
That makes sense.
So does the WAVA/ age best curve for marathon look different from the 5k/10k/HM and adjustment to allow a smooth step up in distance skew it?
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May 2020
10:28am, 15 May 2020
11,056 posts
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larkim
If you just compare the base data, for the roads WAVA assumes 12:59 for 5k, 26:43 for 10k, 58:23 HM and 2:02:57 for a marathon as 100% times.
Between HM and marathon the age factors are identical, below HM the age factors differ per event.
So for me as a 47yo male, the factor is 0.9195 from HM upwards. But it goes as low as 0.9002 for 5k. That means to achieve 100% as a male 47yo on the tables at 5k I'd have to achieve 14:25. If the marathon factor was used instead, 100% at 5k would be 14:07. So the marathon factors for my age seem to be "harder" than the 5k factors.
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May 2020
10:47am, 15 May 2020
30,137 posts
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SPR
Is that because 'good' 47 year olds find 5k harder than marathon (I'm assuming the factors change with age)?
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May 2020
10:56am, 15 May 2020
11,058 posts
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larkim
I don't know the "why" - presumably to a degree because that's what the data says. The implication is certainly there that speed fades earlier in life than endurance.
What I think the tables do tell me though is that my initial inclination that WAVA marathon targets look "hard" isn't the case. They are notionally easier than WAVA 5k targets (for someone of my age / sex). Maybe the fundamental is that conversion for an elite (whether that is a 47yo elite or a 25yo elite) is easier because of their commitment level, but for (some) amateurs the size of the commitment to get a marathon done right is just a step too far.
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May 2020
11:49am, 15 May 2020
7,370 posts
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jda
Once more, it's not a commitment thing, it's a physiology thing.
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May 2020
11:55am, 15 May 2020
11,059 posts
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larkim
Really? If we accept that age impacts speed more than endurance because of physiology (do we accept that?) then isn't it the fact that I am prepared to run 50-70mpw including decent speed workouts the reason I can achieve higher WAVA scores at 10k when I'd *need* to commit to 80-120mpw to get the best out of myself over a marathon? I am making a basic assumption that my "talent" is equally spread across 10k to marathon, but that is in line with the science I believe (Noakes quotes that frequently).
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May 2020
11:56am, 15 May 2020
7,371 posts
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jda
I give up
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May 2020
12:02pm, 15 May 2020
11,060 posts
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larkim
LOL sorry!!
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May 2020
12:07pm, 15 May 2020
16,428 posts
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Bazoaxe
To get the best out of your physiology you need the commitment. It doesn’t just happen?
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May 2020
1:48pm, 16 May 2020
284 posts
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JR
Interestingly our club is having a virtual champs & we did first ‘race’ this week. I thought for a lady in her 50s my time of 3:54 was quite nippy but only gave me 69% WAVA. Yet I did a solo 5km last weekend in 21:19 & got almost 81% for that & the 5km actually felt easier. I looked up the speed I’d have to go for an 81% 1km - never going to happen! Marathon PB is 79% & I tend to score high 70s in most distances other then the 1km which seems an outlier? I wonder if this is as it’s not a conventional race distance?
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RW sub3/3.15
Feb 2025