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Oct 2017
11:39am, 13 Oct 2017
3,047 posts
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larkim
In my opinion the athlete needs a break and also different challenges to keep fresh. If you keep going back to the well and not allowing time for it to refill it will soon be empty.
In instinctively agree with this 100%, based on no science!
Probably by the time that you get to a Baz/WW number of marathons and are trying to shave off an all important minute or so then the fine detail of the plan matters far more.
Also instintively agree with this. There's loads of talk about plans, but I've said before it seems to me that the evidence suggests the margins between the outcomes, especially when plans are only being adopted for say a 6 month window rather than being adopted as a wholescale way of life, are probably relatively small and not measurable and highly dependent on knowledge about the individual concerned - and this knowledge may not be able to be accumulated until after the training is completed!
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Oct 2017
12:24pm, 13 Oct 2017
4,852 posts
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postieboy
I also agree with that statement 100%. I felt invincible 6 months ago, now my tank is empty. 
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Oct 2017
12:32pm, 13 Oct 2017
1,155 posts
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DrDan
Train with consistent consistency, avoid injury, and work on your weaknesses. And drink beer.
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Oct 2017
12:40pm, 13 Oct 2017
11,985 posts
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Bazoaxe
I have followed P&D since 2010, apart from maybe a couple of times when I was just back from injury and cobbled a P&D type plan together but with my own modifications. I have however on a couple of occasions missed an autumn marathon and followed a HADD base programme. Interestingly both of those HADD periods in the autumn led to a 3:02 at Chester the following Autumn with a disappointing VLM in between. Lets hope I then go on to a PB at VLM post Chester as I did after my last 3:02 at Chester.
P&D for me is towards the upper extreme side of training plans, but its a tried and tested method that gets you in pretty good shape. yes I tinker with some elements but broadly follow the plan as I like it and know it has worked for me.
I am though probably going to change for VLM as I do think I need to change something to find the last week bit of time. The plan I am working on will take me out my comfort zone and also mean that I do less of what I really enjoy (i.e. my Sunday LSR) and more quality work.
On R&R, I agree its important. I have not run yet since Sunday, although I might get out for a 3 mile shakeout tonight. Next week will be all easy as well before I start to increase miles and chuck in some intensity as well although some, usually PtB, will say that's all too soon.
On a separate point, I wish Marathons were like 5Ks and you could have another crack again soon. I find it frustrating that you have to recover, build back up and peak again in 6 months time. However I know thats how it works, apart from Joe and Paul A....
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Oct 2017
12:41pm, 13 Oct 2017
11,044 posts
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paul a
I will go back to the wise words of Mrs TZ
“One day I will only be able to walk down memory lane, but for now I can run down there and back again, and for that I am forever and a day grateful.”
It isn’t all about times and racing the clock each time out. We run marathons because we enjoy them not because we are elites and it pays the bills. Yes, we can run some decent times (for our ages and ability) but there is more to it than this. So remember it is the time you have not the time that you run that is important and what you should remember when you hang up your running shoes.
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Oct 2017
12:45pm, 13 Oct 2017
11,045 posts
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paul a
It isn’t necessarily how it works Bazo but it is how you think it works. Lots of people are perfectly happy doing this over multi days and consecutive weeks. I will cite Steve Edwards as an example. Due to run his 800th on Sunday at Birmingham with something like a sub 3:20 average. At least a marathon a week for 30 years and he does just fine on it.
Not for everyone granted but there is a big difference between racing and running a marathon. Luckily we don’t all want the same or have identical goals.
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Oct 2017
12:51pm, 13 Oct 2017
11,986 posts
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Bazoaxe
paul, I am very happy with the times I have run and if that's as good as it gets I will 'retire' happy.
For me though the enjoyment I get from a marathon is getting the best that I can from it and I wouldn't enjoy just doing them to tick them off. I get that from my Sunday LSR.
Granted, if I stop seeing the possibility of improvement, my viewpoint might change.
However, we agree - everyone is motivated by and enjoys different things. And oddly despite 2 very different approaches, we have our best marathons being incredibly similar - albeit had you wanted to chase times then I am sure you would have moved on a level.
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Oct 2017
12:58pm, 13 Oct 2017
11,046 posts
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paul a
Very true about our respective PBS, I don’t think I would have got much faster. My (surprise) PB was on something like my 175th marathon.
The beauty of doing regular marathons is that there is no L(S)R or training programme - the running takes care of itself and the stress and hassle of fitting in a schedule disappears.
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Oct 2017
1:06pm, 13 Oct 2017
1,156 posts
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DrDan
I enjoyed following P&D to the letter one year(VLM 14) ... but in hindsight it was catering towards my relative strengths rather than my weaknesses.
Agree Bazo - the marathon cycle is frustrating (and even more so if Spring marathons are not very compatible with work/family life). Personally, I couldn't motivate myself if I went down the "collecting marathons" route ... clearly highly motivational for many though and I admire their resilience! I haven't run since Chester ... 44 miles of bike commuting has been good for the legs (couldn't manage it on Monday though!). I will avoid parkrun tomorrow as it seems like tempting fate for something to go twang... maybe next week. After VLM I trained for a standard distance tri (Leeds ITU in June) to get myself motivated/fit, while also giving the running legs some recovery.
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Oct 2017
1:11pm, 13 Oct 2017
13,772 posts
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Fenland (Fenners) Runner
I can see both sides of the coin. I probably could run two sub-5 marathons every weekend but what would be the point?
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