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Aug 2017
1:28pm, 29 Aug 2017
11,726 posts
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Bazoaxe
lol. my plan only went to 18 with 12.....and I made it 17 with 11
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Aug 2017
1:59pm, 29 Aug 2017
1,803 posts
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jdarun
Important to note that the breaks I'm referring to are only a short relaxation to a proper steady run pace, not a "rest" as such and probably more of a mental than physical break. At least that's the theory 
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Aug 2017
2:09pm, 29 Aug 2017
2,621 posts
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larkim
Part of the "fun" is pulling a plan off from somewhere they "forcing" yourself to stick to it - part of what HG paints as the memories of pain and intensity that get you to the start line. So whilst on the one hand I'm utterly convinced that changing the specifics of 1 (or even a small handful) of sessions in a plan is unlikely to have any measurable impact on race day performance, I'll be working on the basis that "if P&D say that's what I should do, then that's what I should do".
Of course, having said that I'm going off-plan over the next few weeks so I'm not being quite as disciplined as I'd like to be!
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Aug 2017
2:25pm, 29 Aug 2017
27,265 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
I move things around to suit life (the P&D book actually says this is fine) but try to stick to the principles. I try and keep roughly the total volume, the long runs, the speed, the rest /easy days. I will sometimes do a race instead of a tempo or instead of an MP, a club shape of intervals instead of those prescribed, and the paces of general and long runs will often be slower (cos I do them in hills).
And I try not to do too many races, not too many hard-hard days, not go ahead of the paces (all are injury risk imho)
But I think otherwise it's within the overall spirit of the plan. G
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Aug 2017
2:49pm, 29 Aug 2017
4,716 posts
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postieboy
That's how I've approached P&D. Follow it as rigidly as possible, only making the odd adjustment for races and life getting in the way. I find it enjoyable this way. The sessions are there in front of you every day, just go out there and do it. Creates no doubts in my mind.
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Aug 2017
2:52pm, 29 Aug 2017
2,623 posts
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larkim
I was going to post similar - that P&D say fit this around your life. But I think they also caveat it with "but not too much, otherwise there's no point buying our book"...!
I'm "lucky" that as I don't train with a club I can always do what I want, rather than feel pressured into following the session that is running that night. Not that that would generally be a bad thing, but I like to be in control of what I do (even if I am choosing not to stick precisely to the plan).
One thing I have been diligent at is sticking to the paces. Only once or twice have I run an MLR just a bit faster than the target paces in the book, but partly that's because I think I am training for closer to 3:08/3:10 whilst fully intending only to race to 3:15 in my desire to be cautious!
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Aug 2017
2:59pm, 29 Aug 2017
11,727 posts
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Bazoaxe
larkim, that's one of the reasons I have avoided Lou's regular suggestions that I join a club. While I see the benefits of running with other people and in particular people of a similar or better standard who might be able to ensure you hit the paces, the problem is your plan might say 12 with 7 at HMP and the group are doing 16 x 400s
On your race plans, I happen to think that you are doing sensible...training for something faster than you will target. A first marathon is always a potential challenge and if you get a solid race done, you can then start to realise your potential in the next few.
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Aug 2017
3:38pm, 29 Aug 2017
2,624 posts
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larkim
I am actually a club member, though that's more a function of being a parent of kids who run and volunteering a few years ago to keep on top of their website / social meeja. But the club has almost no adult members, certainly none who train to race, so whilst on the odd occasion I've training with the kids, there's no pressure to meet up for standard sessions etc.
Thanks for the seal of approval on the race plans. The only aspect where I know I'm letting myself down (in pure running terms) is by not targetting a higher volume plan (or indeed an 18 week one), but I'll leave those in the locker to pull out "next time" (if next time exists!). London 2019 if I get GFA?
My only issue with pacing is the dilemma of whether to head out with the 3:15 pacers (assuming they go for a completely flat even pace) or to try to bank a minute or so in the first half (much as P&D suggest). I know when I was clock watching on Sunday am by the time I got to 6 miles at 7:16 average I was happily telling myself that another 6 could be as slow as 7:36 and I'd still hit my PMP target and that was a nice boost. I can see that mentality coming in Chester too.
As a side note on Chester, they've confirmed to me that it will be Lucozade Orange Sport at drinks stops 2,4,6,8 and High5 Berry gels at stops 3,5,7,9. Water only at 1. Might have to get a bottle of lucozade for the 20 miler this weekend to see how that fits with gels if I follow P&D's suggestions of fuelling early in the race.
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Aug 2017
4:42pm, 29 Aug 2017
27,267 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
You can't drink a whole 500ml anything in a race (imho) and you don't get enough cals out of a sip to be useful. I just drink water in race and gels for calories. I do down a free 500ml Lucozade sport before start line though!
I found the pacers annoying at big city races. We're good enough with our watches and our discipline to pace fine anyway. Just ignore pacer! Re. "banking" - as long as it's no more than a minute! I think we're probably all familiar with this thread's view, nay orthodoxy (and Paul the builder's gospel) on even pacing being the best and only way to pace your marathon!
Pace to 7:20 and you'll get 3:14 even if it's 26.4ish (which it often is on the Garmin). Use the manual lapping if you are bold / smart! I just pace a bit ahead of bare minimum to give a bit of wriggle room. So I will be setting out at 7:20s, personally! G
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Aug 2017
5:24pm, 29 Aug 2017
147 posts
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glucotab
Not berry, please. Had a bad experience with P-Br gels in an IM event where just needed so much H2O to get the things out of my throat that had to stop 3 times for bathroom needs, and tbh I can still taste the gloop now...
Lucozade is medicinal, as I had that in hospital once, aged 8. Tastes better anyway, even the latest sport versions.
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