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Aug 2017
10:21am, 29 Aug 2017
2,618 posts
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larkim
Beyond the motivation to get out running for 90 minutes or so, I certainly don't find the MLRs "hard" when run at the pace prescribed in P&D (i.e. 10-20% slower than MP), which for 3:15 is basically 8:10/mile to 8:55/mile - bearing in mind I'm doing them in the sub 55 miles per week plan, so I might think differently if I was running higher mileage than that. So I wouldn't count the MLRs as a "hard effort" though I would class them as "not easy" if that's not being too fence-sitting.
Intervals and tempos are the "hard efforts" for me, longer tempos particularly. I've got 12 with 7 at tempo on Friday and that's the one I'll be thinking about in the week (plus my personalised plan to do a 20 mile race with 5 easy / 15 at MP on Sunday).
So I view the weeks as "some easy", "some not easy" and "1 hard" in a typical P&D week.
Without any science behind this at all, if I was apprehensive about the intensity I'd drop the tempo down to PMP and race the half, simply because getting motivation up for a half is easier than an evening tempo. But of course, ideally it would be to do them as prescribed!
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Aug 2017
10:30am, 29 Aug 2017
4,710 posts
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chunkywizard
thanks for the feedback, I'll man up.
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Aug 2017
10:32am, 29 Aug 2017
11,722 posts
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Bazoaxe
CW, that 11 with 7 at LT/HMP is probably the hardest session in the plan. I know that when I have nailed this in the past that I have been pretty pleased anmd even when I haven't quite nailed it I know that its been a good session nevertheless
I agree plan is challenging, but then again, so is a marathon and so you need to push outside your comfort zone to get yourself ready, but without overdoing it so listen to your body as well.
I have a similar week and due to other commitments my 12 with 7 needs to be done early on Thursday which will make it a very tough session
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Aug 2017
10:55am, 29 Aug 2017
27,262 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
That's weird - just looked at the 55-70 (that I'm sort of, but not really, doing!) and there wasn't a 7 LT. Longest was 6. 9 with 4 twice, 9 with 5 twice and a 12 with 6, but no 11 with 7. Lucky me!
Got a longer intervals this week. But apart from that, think it's mostly easy running for me, with a few wee races in there, til the end. I must have skipped the hard stuff!  G
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Aug 2017
11:07am, 29 Aug 2017
2,619 posts
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larkim
I was wondering where the 11 with 7 came from as I've got 12 with 7 in the plan for the end of the week. But I suppose it's the "7" that's the important bit...
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Aug 2017
12:19pm, 29 Aug 2017
11,723 posts
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Bazoaxe
There are 2, maybe even 3 different versions of the book with variants of the plan.
My P&D book is the original version and the plan in there bears little resemblance to the later version(s). I am sure someone from here e-mailed me the later versions (maybe Nelly) but I tend to download versions that people have put into the fetch training schedules which again may not exactly match the books if someone has personalised them.
Mine this week says 12 with 7 and is quite clear its 4 WU, 7 LT and 1 WD. I agree that the 7 is the most important part. But also the most daunting !!
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Aug 2017
12:20pm, 29 Aug 2017
11,724 posts
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Bazoaxe
Actually once or twice in raced HMs Ive found myself get to 7 and think this is tough, I could jog in from here and it would still be a good P&D session. However Ive never yet given in to that temptation
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Aug 2017
12:25pm, 29 Aug 2017
1,802 posts
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jdarun
7 at LT does sound like a bit of a beast. JAck Daniels tends to split it up into intervals with short rest, perhaps 3 x 15 min with 2 min breaks would seem less daunting but achieve much the same effect. Or 8x 6 on 1 off which I've done a few times.
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Aug 2017
12:37pm, 29 Aug 2017
11,725 posts
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Bazoaxe
jda, that's an interesting point about splitting the session up for much the same effect. I am no expert in this, but I think one continuous effort would be more beneficial than 3 x 15 mins at the same pace or any other split up of the effort unless maybe your time between the efforts was something like say a mile at MP, so easing back a bit then picking up again.
My approach would be only to split the session up earlier in the cycle or if I felt I wasn't in the right shape, but in most cases would stick with the continuous miles.
Just had a look at the forecast for my planned run on Thu and looks like there is no wind and so will be ideal conditions. You heard it here now, no excuses for me not hitting 6:30s, albeit chances are I am reporting back here on Thursday lunchtime with some reason for not having run as I planned
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Aug 2017
1:25pm, 29 Aug 2017
27,263 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Bazo, P&D later editions (and the 10k-half book that I have) have embraced the "splitting it up" concept that jda refers to.
It specifically describes things like e.g. 20 min + 12 min with a short rest between as being as good as a 30 min continuous, but taking less out of you overall. I'll try and find an exact quote from the book and update here.
Having said only 1 hard in the plan this week, I've just discovered that I'd ignored the Sun run, because I was going to do club handicap instead. It's been cancelled, so I've looked again to see what the Sun long run is... 18 with 14 at MP! The toughest of the lot! G
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