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Jun 2023
1:29pm, 24 Jun 2023
20,305 posts
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rf_fozzy
Hann you've missed my point.
I wasnt saying vegetarian = hardship.
I'm saying that it's not straightforward for everyone to become vegetarian
For example, I cannot eat nuts. And things like hummus and other sloppy stuff.
Now I'm not saying it's impossible, it's not, but that for me, personally, the switch is not straightforward.
I've tried several times and cannot find a balanced diet that works for me. I've reduced my meat somewhat, but at present I don't have the time/money/mental space to go further.
I wish I did.
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Jun 2023
1:35pm, 24 Jun 2023
20,306 posts
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rf_fozzy
My point re: over moralising was more that if you want to bring people along to a greater vegetarian diet, then saying oh won't someone think of the animals isn't the way to do it.
Instead, it's got to be done the other way round by making vegetarian options easier.
And that's where I get stuck.
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Jun 2023
1:39pm, 24 Jun 2023
105,284 posts
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Hanneke
Fozz, when I say "no hardship" that is a manner of speech/use of language. It isn't meant to be taken literally nor was it specifically aimed at you.
For me personally, I could make it very difficult: I have allergies and medical issues... I NEED vit b12 from my diet. Only way to get bio available B12 is from animal protein so I have to keep chickens, for their B12 containing eggs. I know I drive my passion to be self sufficient much further that others and keeping chickens is not for everyone... Hence always keeping a couple more than I need: to have eggs for others!
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Jun 2023
1:51pm, 24 Jun 2023
9,342 posts
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The Terminator
Being vegan is about doing everything you can to avoid animal cruelty but like vegetarian is just a label. If you can go to sleep at night safe in the knowledge you are making choices that are as compassionate as possible for yourself, mother earth and all her beings then you aren't going far 'wrong' IMO. And even if you go to sleep mindfull that there were areas you could improve then that is awareness too. So that is basically everyone. Different pages but all doing our 'best'. If someone wants then to discuss or work in how they can make more compassionate choices then that is how change happens, again in my opinion.
That was my message when I ran my vegan supermarket and it helped convert so many more to veganism and environmentalism than when I practiced the more militant approach but, again, I am so in awe of the activists out there on the front line, I tried that and it was beyond my physical and mental capabilities.
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Jun 2023
2:10pm, 24 Jun 2023
105,285 posts
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Hanneke
Exactly TT!
And why I started my permaculture/self sufficiency project back in 2014. By educating people I have achieved a lot more than by being too activist...
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Jun 2023
2:20pm, 24 Jun 2023
1,846 posts
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fuzzyduck79
Suppose everyone was paid say Ā£500 a month to go completely vegetarian - I wonder how many who said it was too hard would suddenly make a bigger effort?
Just a hypothetical, I realise there would be issues like no veg left in supermarket etc. It's only a thought experiment based on financial reward driving behaviour. I know I'd give it a try straight away.
There are parallels with people installing solar panels etc - the financial reward has changed out of sight in the last 12 months or so, and it has caused a spike in demand. The fact that it's good for the planet might be a feel good factor influencing some people's decisions, but that wasn't enough to move many people before.
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Jun 2023
2:26pm, 24 Jun 2023
20,307 posts
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rf_fozzy
I see you don't understand FD.
I'll go away.
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Jun 2023
2:32pm, 24 Jun 2023
9,343 posts
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The Terminator
People don't care about the 'big' issues until they feel they are affecting them directly. Look at Covid. So until they are flooded etc it's often a case of out of sight out of mind. The problem there, for me, is a lack of connection and not realising that any suffering anywhere on mother earth is ultimately our suffering too. We are all one. It's like saying we shouldn't be helping with climate catastrophes in the Global South as we have enough problems of our own then blaming immigrants for our problems and not making the connection. I get it though. We all have conditions that led us to the beliefs we had today and it could easily be me that holds such views so they are no more right or wrong than mine. Just our truths in this moment.
That is activism just as much as any other Hann š
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Jun 2023
2:38pm, 24 Jun 2023
5 posts
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TooScaredToPost
Is there an argument that the most environmentally friendly thing an individual can do is to take a conscious decision not to have children?
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Jun 2023
2:59pm, 24 Jun 2023
4,006 posts
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Pou Pou LePhoƵk
...or pets... 
I'd be prepared to give up many things, but I wouldn't give up having children.
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