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Jun 2023
3:00pm, 24 Jun 2023
4,007 posts
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Pou Pou LePhoõk
I don't know if there are many people who say they don't have children specifically for climate purposes. It'd be interesting to chat with them.
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Jun 2023
3:05pm, 24 Jun 2023
47,030 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
I think the answer is yes, having or not having kids benefits the climate. But so does killing yourself. Reductio ad absurdum? And I'm not advocating suicide nor trivialising it. Just using it to illustrate how choosing life vs climate is probably a choice too far. It's how to live responsibly not how not to live, surely?  G
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Jun 2023
3:34pm, 24 Jun 2023
20,308 posts
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rf_fozzy
"I don't know if there are many people who say they don't have children specifically for climate purposes. It'd be interesting to chat with them."
There are loads of millennials and gen-Zers who have made this decision
I know quite a few.
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Jun 2023
3:38pm, 24 Jun 2023
20,309 posts
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rf_fozzy
The financial damage done to these generations also plays a part.
But I know quite a few who've seen the mess and ongoing lack of concern from older generations to the climate damage still being caused and made the decision not to have kids.
Ask gen Z what the most important issue facing us is and they'll say the environment - been demonstrated in any number of polls.
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Jun 2023
3:48pm, 24 Jun 2023
1,847 posts
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fuzzyduck79
Surely it's possible to live in such a way that you give more back to your environment than you take away? Is there an optimal number of humans for Earth before it all tips towards unsustainability? Depends how that population evolve and behave.
Feels like the UK collectively do far more harm than good, because we've learned to live with a lot of comforts that we don't want to give up. Cheap flights, driving short distances in private cars, consuming beef/dairy, generating astonishing amounts of waste (inc what goes in the recycling bin, is it only ~10% of the plastic we throw away is suitable for processing?) burning fossil fuel to keep our houses warmer than previous generations enjoyed.
I suspect a very small percentage of people base their decision to have children or not on climate purposes, not saying there are none - but when you look at all the other decisions people make it wouldn't be consistent with all the countless ways you can lessen your impact on the environment yet people don't
I count myself in that too, could do so much better but I don't.
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Jun 2023
3:56pm, 24 Jun 2023
105,286 posts
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Hanneke
I do everything within my power... I also don't have children. Which I would have wanted but a serious genetic medical condition stopped me. Too great a chance of burdening my child(ren) with: 1. A mother disabled after childbirth and 2. the same debilitating medical condition.
I am now glad I don't have children, as I do not envy the younger generations and what they are being left to deal with!
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Jun 2023
4:15pm, 24 Jun 2023
14,999 posts
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jda
Surely it's possible to live in such a way that you give more back to your environment than you take away?
Not really, in the modern world. I mean you could try living in a self-sufficient commune with no external demands but when people have tried in the past it's rarely gone well. You may reduce your demands but net zero (in multiple dimensions) is not easy to conceive of let alone achieve.
Though you may argue that the person who (say) invents cheap practical fusion will have given more back even if they drive a Hummer. Likewise the next solar/battery breakthrough. I'd claim saint status for myself with climate change research but the big questions were all answered decades ago before I got into it, we've spent the time (and money!) since then just understanding better and better how much shit we're in.
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Jun 2023
5:03pm, 24 Jun 2023
105,291 posts
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Hanneke
You are spoton jda:
We have spent time and money researching how much sh#t we are in. Had we taken action, we would not have been in so much sh#t...
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Jun 2023
5:08pm, 24 Jun 2023
1,848 posts
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fuzzyduck79
It sounds like you're doing far more than most Hanneke, and if everyone was like you we'd be in a massively better place.
Self sufficient commune sounds a bit extreme, but there's lots of smaller steps that can be taken in that direction. Even changing from dairy milk to an alternative makes a difference. I did that for a few months, and gave up.
I think I'd be a lot more motivated if it looked like things were changing, but the best thing to nudge my behaviour would be to just take the choice away from me. Maybe a limit on how much each person could have per week, not too far off imposing a carbon budget?
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Jun 2023
5:22pm, 24 Jun 2023
9,344 posts
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The Terminator
I think that I give back more than I take. The modern world just doesn't want us to believe we can as then we stop consuming and spending. But if you want to you can. I've never driven and now literally only spend money on food, public transport and a £12 a month phone contract. I made that decision after years of living unsustainably. The less I've had the happier I've been and less I've needed for.
I've also just had a new baby 19 years after my last. I was in the if I had my time again I wouldn't have children camp but my new partner didn't have children and I'm sure with our lifestyle that our daughter will give more to mother earth than she takes.
In other, linked, news I have been given a number of acres of fertile land on which, within the next 18 months, I hope to have set the wheels in motion to feed my whole village sesaonal fruit and veg at cost price or free for volunteers. Changing the mindset of the community regards such a diet change will be the main challenge but one I look forward to.
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