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Mar 2018
11:09pm, 17 Mar 2018
25,380 posts
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Derby Tup
No. Guilty
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Mar 2018
2:20pm, 18 Mar 2018
842 posts
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SailorSteve
You're a funny guy Larkim : )
You won't be surprised to learn that I don't find your blind faith in the authorities the least bit credible. For example I don't find it difficult to question whether having a Nike ambassador as the head of the IAAF might lead to a conflict of interest. I do agree with you on one thing though: "Just goes to show we all have inherently prejudged views."
Now, where did I leave my ventolin?
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Mar 2018
4:51pm, 18 Mar 2018
4,175 posts
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larkim
I do my best SS!
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Mar 2018
5:48pm, 18 Mar 2018
4,176 posts
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larkim
I just find it logically more credible to treat innocent until a guilty verdict comes along. Especially as half the arguments many use could equally apply to athletes that are presumed innocent by the vast majority.
E.g. Jo Pavey - surely is unrealistic to expect such a long career with late success without being boosted by drugs to keep her young.
E.g. Laura Muir - how did an unpromising youngster ranked 170th in the country manage to turn around into a world silver medalist. Plus she has ready access to drugs and stuff in her vetinary training
(And for the record, I don't for a minute audit either of them off doing that, in just using examples).
I have no doubt whatsoever that Farah with Salazar used every legal means possible to win. More fool anyone else who doesn't choose to take advantage of modern training and supplement use to my mind.
But it doesn't mean there's some conspiracy of the very bodies that brought down Armstrong etc to hide doping amongst a select few individuals who are only high performance because they've been successful.
If Farah, Radcliffe, Coe, Froome, Wiggins, Bekele, etc are ever "done" for doping I'll be delighted because I want to see a clean sport.
But until there's any clear cut evidence of cheating, whether discovered by a journalist, found by an antidoping body, reported through first hand accounts etc, it makes life and watching sport a whole lot more satisfying if we keep the pressure on for good funding of antidoping whilst starting with the presumption that what we're watching is clean.
That might seem naive, but I'm cynical about enough other things - I prefer not to be so cynical about sporting performance!
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Mar 2018
5:57pm, 18 Mar 2018
25,405 posts
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Derby Tup
12 - 18 months and it’s all coming out in the wash especially Froome and Sir Brad Weller
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Mar 2018
6:00pm, 18 Mar 2018
12,399 posts
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Chrisull
There simply is no comparison between Pavey , Muir who are competing at a high but not spectacularly high level and NOT dominating to Farah and Froome who are winning time and time again unprecedented successes against the best in the world at a time when most others have faded. The 5000/10000m double eluded most of the great Kenyans/Ethiopians. We know EPO is rife in the running world, so therefore Farah is almost certainly beating doped up athletes.
Looking at Nike Oregon, it's not that, this is being fingered so much (although Salazar has been pretty much discredited), it is the time back in Ethiopia (one of the weakest drugs testing regimes in the world), and the time with Aden that looks so dodgy. Is it likely a coach who carries EPO for all his other clients does some "honest" work on the side?
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Mar 2018
6:04pm, 18 Mar 2018
25,406 posts
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Derby Tup
Spot on
And the fella that’s clean and was rubbish is beating all the dopers, not occasionally, but all the time - it’s superhero stuff
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Mar 2018
6:07pm, 18 Mar 2018
4,178 posts
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larkim
Aden never coached Farah! You can meet, exchange pleasantries, even have dinner with someone who's a (as yet unconvicted) doping coach without then sticking needles full of EPO in you you know.
Farah has been accused of unnaturally long career press progress (CF Pavey) and dramatic performance improvements (CF Muir). I know there's no comparison, just trying to demonstrate how bonkers those arguments are.
And if we're going down the route of saying everyone who trains in Kenya or Ethiopia with their poor anti doping arrangements must be a doper, that's an enormous swamp that needs draining.
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Mar 2018
6:08pm, 18 Mar 2018
25,407 posts
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Derby Tup
Enormous. Swamp. Drain 
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Mar 2018
6:11pm, 18 Mar 2018
25,408 posts
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Derby Tup
Read up on cycling. Find out about the seniors pros who where burned off by early days EPO fuelled journey men. Why did Armstrong get on the good gear? Because he (and the team) trained very hard and where left standing. He was sick of losing. For decades the dopers have been ahead of the testers - 18 months max
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