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Sep 2018
10:02am, 27 Sep 2018
29,284 posts
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Hendo
No, you're being a total c*ck
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Sep 2018
10:02am, 27 Sep 2018
29,285 posts
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Hendo
*waves*
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Sep 2018
10:09am, 27 Sep 2018
29,239 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Fair points Jambomo. I think there are many places though where society have a view and a law to restrict things where it might be accused of being a "nanny state".
I don't have figures on the proportion of women for whom it is a genuine "choice" and your assertion that it's a reasonable proportion and mine that it's a tiny minority are both guesses, I suspect? Thanks for your input. I suspect my missus will be saying something similar and I need to be prepared to take that view on board. Thanks.
WS - male strippers. Good point. I think it's back to power and balance in society. I could be on very dangerous ground here though. There would be a type of male stripper who I think would be vulnerable and would fall into exactly the same category - maybe someone very young, someone who is homeless, has an addiction, or mental health issue. I still think male stripping is just a bit ridiculous and tawdry, but it's a. less prevalent and b. probably less of a power imbalance. But again, that's just a guess. I'd ban it in exactly the same way though. The rules should be gender neutral.
Hmm, these are the sorts of things I was hoping to be challenged on. Thanks Fetchies...
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Sep 2018
10:10am, 27 Sep 2018
29,240 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Yay! When was the last time you posted in a thread Hendo?! Did you get an owl sent direct to your home or work by the Ministry of Magic to alert you to my inane drivel?
*waves back*  G
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Sep 2018
10:18am, 27 Sep 2018
39,246 posts
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Velociraptor
I would think no worse of, and might even admire, a woman who opted for stripping as a legitimate way to make a living and I have no doubt that there are women who do this sort of work by choice. Would I want my daughters to strip to support themselves at university? I'd rather they didn't, but that's mainly because of the associated risk-taking behaviours (drugs, cosmetic surgery, exploitative personal relationships) common among strippers.
If I discovered that any man I knew habitually paid to visit strip clubs as his preferred form of entertainment, I would think less well of him as a human being. Would I want any of my daughters to marry him? Ugh, no, in the same way as I wouldn't want my daughter to marry a priest opposed to women becoming bishops.
If this is hypocrisy, I take ownership of it.
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Sep 2018
10:24am, 27 Sep 2018
16,762 posts
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Dvorak
When I wrote "prejudice", tbh G I was viewing you a bit like those Wee Free types who will picket a film without having seen it. The "fat sweaty businessman" bit rather caught my eye. As did your (male?) assumption that Srr's opinion based on her personal first hand knowledge is inferior to yours.
There is also the argument that even of you think something personally is bad, often a bad thing in an open and regulated way is better than a bad thing in an underground and unregulated way. And given the failures of law enforcement in all manner of things related to sexual exploitation involving much worse than titty bars ...
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Sep 2018
10:29am, 27 Sep 2018
19,530 posts
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Wriggling Snake
Yes V'rap that is hypocritical but understandably so.
I was being a little throw-away with Male stripping, but the point was that it is not as straightforward as Men exploiting Women stripping. I'd say a good number are in control of what they are doing to make money, as there are that have got into that industry for wholly the wrong reasons.
I also happen to think the idea that when women go and see men stripping it is all a bit of a laugh 'nudge, nudge, wink, wink' (as we used to say), but in fact it is just as seedy and is the other side of the coin.
I also genuinely believe the power dynamics in modern society are changing, and changing quite quickly, such that some of the exploitation that was usually committed by men (possibly) is now being committed by women, or at least the reporting of it is bringing that to light.
I was think of domestic abuse of men in particular, but also other rather grim stuff (my partner works in child protection).
I'll go out at lunchtime and cheer myself up with a run.
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Sep 2018
10:32am, 27 Sep 2018
39,247 posts
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Velociraptor
I agree, WS. I wonder whether :)G has similar views on stripping that isn't about men looking at women.
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Sep 2018
10:41am, 27 Sep 2018
29,241 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Dv, but I have personal experience of being a customer in a stripping location. At least once on someone's stag do (OK, a long time ago) and the Moulin Rouge one I described in previous page. That one is recent, and that it is expensive and glitzy doesn't make it any different in my mind.
V'rap. Interesting. I've said what I think about the numbers (of women for whom it is an active choice) i.e. that I don't have them, but I don't think my missus does either. I don't know that objective research has been done on the subject. So I'm having to use hypotheses. If a large proportion (whether that's 20% or half or 99%) are being exploited, then isn't that reason enough to ban it? We ban less harmful things e.g. cannabis.
I've given a response to WS's question about male strippers too.
Dv, and regarding regulated vs underground and our ability or lack of enforcement. That's again a very practical concern, but you can't not legislate something just because it's a bit hard to police. You surely legislate on principles then adjust policing to uphold the law. You don't design laws for what the police might be able to cope with?
Thanks all. Lots of interesting views. G
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Sep 2018
10:48am, 27 Sep 2018
29,286 posts
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Hendo
Right place right time G - just happened to pop in
As an aside, OH's cousin was a dancer in the other famous Parisien dance place for a very long time. I get the sense that if you would have suggested she was being exploited she's have clipped you round the chops and told you not to be so patronising. Seems to me to be quite a wide spectrum of nuddy opportunties to be putting such a broad-brush view across it all. Anyway.
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