8 Jan
3:24pm, 8 Jan 2025
15,970 posts
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Ultracat
I am a bit worried about what Trump is really up to, aiming at dividing Europe or NATO maybe?
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8 Jan
3:28pm, 8 Jan 2025
33,542 posts
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Johnny Blaze
That may well happen. The man is an idiot.
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8 Jan
3:35pm, 8 Jan 2025
7,177 posts
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paulcook
Is Trump dividing Europe and NATO? Or Putin by proxy? Or the pair of them even?
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8 Jan
3:40pm, 8 Jan 2025
26,370 posts
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larkim
I suppose in terms of national borders etc it is worth remembering that they are always open to flex, and what we are used to feeling permanent is something of an illusion. Greenland really does look and feel like somewhere which one of several countries might want to "own" and the independence movement is more or less entirely within the hands of the population there (according to en.wikipedia.org ). In some ways, Trump getting aggressive with ways of acquiring Greenland might actually work against the population there seeking independence; after all, it's not independence if the US simply rolls a couple of battalions of troops in and overwhelms the small local population shortly after Greenland becomes independent of Denmark. But an independent Greenland might choose to earn significant economic benefits from deals with the US which are cheap to the US but very lucrative in Greenlandish terms. By 2100 we could well have very differently drawn borders than we do now; we did in 1900 and 1800. |
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8 Jan
3:44pm, 8 Jan 2025
7,178 posts
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paulcook
US military base. US mining rights. Greenlandic independence and security. Everyone (!)'s a winner.
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8 Jan
4:10pm, 8 Jan 2025
453 posts
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deslauriers
I suspect, at least partly, this stupidity is a distraction from what is to come |
8 Jan
4:12pm, 8 Jan 2025
30,958 posts
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richmac
Here is a chilling thought for you all. Trump stating Greenland is vital for US security is exactly the same thinking that led Putin to invade Ukraine - see the introduction of "Prisoners of geography" for the explanation. I suspect Putin has explained his perceived right or need posses that central European plain in one of his & Don's Tete a tetes & Trump has got it into his empty little head that he to needs a 'must have' bit of land to keep the US safe. Remember Trump is not a geographer He's not a military strategist He's an unimaginative man child with a thin skin No Actual US geographer, diplomat or military person has previously suggested Greenland is a must have territory. This is a very dangerous one upmanship fantasy that Trump has in regards to Putin |
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8 Jan
4:19pm, 8 Jan 2025
33,543 posts
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Johnny Blaze
That's probably about the size of it. Despot see, despot do. And the media in the US are devoting reams of pages into rationalising "why he may be thinking about this" rather than seeing it as a land grab by a would-be dictator. Also: Actual size: Greenland's actual area is about 2,166,086 sq km. Mercator projection: On a Mercator projection map, Greenland appears to be roughly the same size as Africa, which is actually 14 times larger. |
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8 Jan
4:30pm, 8 Jan 2025
26,371 posts
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larkim
I was just about to post that thought; I bet Trump thinks it is as big as it shows on the Mercator projections. I mean, it's still not small, but it's nowhere near that size. I don't really think the UK can criticise Trump though for aspiring to widen the land base of the US. We hold on to pointless bits of territory across the world for much the same reasons as he purports to want Greenland; minerals, tactical bases, oil reserve potential. |
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8 Jan
4:34pm, 8 Jan 2025
33,544 posts
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Johnny Blaze
larkim wrote: I suppose in terms of national borders etc it is worth remembering that they are always open to flex, and what we are used to feeling permanent is something of an illusion. Greenland really does look and feel like somewhere which one of several countries might want to "own" and the independence movement is more or less entirely within the hands of the population there (according to en.wikipedia.org ). In some ways, Trump getting aggressive with ways of acquiring Greenland might actually work against the population there seeking independence; after all, it's not independence if the US simply rolls a couple of battalions of troops in and overwhelms the small local population shortly after Greenland becomes independent of Denmark. But an independent Greenland might choose to earn significant economic benefits from deals with the US which are cheap to the US but very lucrative in Greenlandish terms. By 2100 we could well have very differently drawn borders than we do now; we did in 1900 and 1800. I refuse to rationalise this scheme. Let's call it out for what it is: the colonial ambitions of a power mad, mentally-declining oaf. If we rationalise this we are doing his job for him and "obeying in advance" as the current phrase has it - because it won't stop at Greenland, and you can take that one to the bank. "Manifest Destiny" didn't work out too well for Native Americans, and any resistance to Trump's madness will be similarly squashed. |
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