Nov 2024
3:17pm, 6 Nov 2024
6,891 posts
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paulcook
J2R wrote: Basically I think America has now left the liberal democratic world In terms of (free and fair) democracy, I read earlier in the week it ranked 29th (or 27th) in least fair democracies in the world. So it wasn't necessarily in a great position anyway. Liberal road, I ain't going down. |
Nov 2024
3:32pm, 6 Nov 2024
18,073 posts
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jda
"forces people to seek a positive alternative?" I think plenty people will always be able to talk themselves into seeking a negative alternative. |
Nov 2024
3:47pm, 6 Nov 2024
26,023 posts
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larkim
I still don't see the end of democracy as you suggest J2R. I would agree it is one possibility out of a range of possible scenarios under Trump, but the states are still powerful in the US. What we may see is fragmentation of the rules and regulations throughout the USA though. I think the first 30 days will be key. If Trumps in in full on fascist mode, the appointments / termination of appointments will come in thick and fast. Starting with the military. But some of the fear about what he might do is tempered by the fact that it's simply not in the federal government's power to do those things. |
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Nov 2024
3:52pm, 6 Nov 2024
18,074 posts
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jda
"Long term planning, and long term differences." There is simply no prospect of long-term planning and long-term differences when the next Tory govt can rip things up in a matter of weeks. Even if Labour wanted to do it (which isn't clear to me). Investment (in just about anything) means short-term costs and long-term benefits so no 5-year parliament can really do anything. Labour could of course address the problem with the electoral system that encourages flipping between extremes based on minority votes, rather than awarding power to a broad consensus that might just possibly enable long-term thinking, but they won't, because they'd rather have their occasional snatches of absolute power regardless of the consequences for the country. |
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Nov 2024
3:57pm, 6 Nov 2024
26,024 posts
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larkim
Not entirely sure the last election saw a "flip between extremes"... As much as I want to paint the gap between Labour and the Tories!
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Nov 2024
3:59pm, 6 Nov 2024
18,075 posts
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jda
Well, for all their faults they did just immediately reverse some things the tories had done (Rwanda). And the tories are promising the same regarding IHT changes. Long-termism it certainly isn't.
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Nov 2024
4:02pm, 6 Nov 2024
46,643 posts
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SPR
No but it saw a flip in absolute power and the only way to hold on is deliver in 5 years. If you had to work together in a coalition maybe you'd have more long term planning.
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Nov 2024
4:17pm, 6 Nov 2024
23,388 posts
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rf_fozzy
Jessica Elgot (Guardian) posted this this morning, which seems pertinent - it's from last year, but still relevant. And goes to the heart of the discussion you're having. Deliverism just doesn't cut it the way you want. democracyjournal.org |
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Nov 2024
4:30pm, 6 Nov 2024
26,025 posts
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larkim
Agree about the smoother running of government without spikes in political flavour change in a coalition. But that's not always the case. There are dramatic shifts under all types of electoral systems. I know it's unrealistic, but it's why I advocate for longer electoral cycles. 10-15 years between a change in government allows for longer term programmes to be delivered and concluded. |
Nov 2024
4:32pm, 6 Nov 2024
22,364 posts
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Chrisull
"with bonds/gilts **briefly** resembling the market under Truss's" Disagree. "The yield—or interest rate—on a 10-year gilt, an indicator for the cost of state borrowing, hit 4.568% on Thursday afternoon, the highest point since August 2023, while the pound also weakened against the dollar." vs "https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/30/liz-truss-uk-economic-crisis "Yields on 10-year bonds – the interest rate at which the government borrows – shot up above 4%, and continued to climb through Tuesday" I'm sorry what I said is objectively true, the bonds spiked under Reeves for a short period. Define what exactly I said was wrong??? |
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