10:08am
10:08am, 7 Oct 2024
6,629 posts
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paulcook
SPR wrote: It seems to me that Israel's calculation with the Lebanon escalation is they can't lose. This has been in the planning since 2006 according to various sources. Is this Greater Israel? Though I wonder if that's more conspiracy theory than the reality. |
10:09am
10:09am, 7 Oct 2024
70,200 posts
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LindsD
I don't disagree with any of the points made above but did find this thought-provoking. theguardian.com |
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10:10am
10:10am, 7 Oct 2024
6,630 posts
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paulcook
um wrote: @paulcook From memory the poll was along the lines of "What issues you think are facing Britain today" and a long list to select any number from. And then the same list with 'How much are you personally impacted by these" What issues would certainly allow more than one answer. Whereas the results "most important" suggests to me 1 issue. The difference to me then says people have fewer political worries on an individual level. As SPR says. |
10:18am
10:18am, 7 Oct 2024
32,870 posts
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macca 53
paulcook wrote: um wrote:@paulcook From memory the poll was along the lines of "What issues you think are facing Britain today" and a long list to select any number from. And then the same list with 'How much are you personally impacted by these" What issues would certainly allow more than one answer. Whereas the results "most important" suggests to me 1 issue. The difference to me then says people have fewer political worries on an individual level. As SPR says. I read the whole thing as being a kind of “yes I acknowledge there’s an issue, but it doesn’t really affect my life so (understood) I’m not doing anything about it” |
10:27am
10:27am, 7 Oct 2024
46,352 posts
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SPR
But they are doing something about it if they vote based on it. Continuing to use the immigration example, this is linked to Brexit and the main two political parties certainly want to seem tough on it.
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11:06am
11:06am, 7 Oct 2024
19,287 posts
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JamieKai *chameleon*
HappyG(rrr) wrote: I suspect this won't be popular opinion, but I feel like the BBC news has a tonal imbalance in the reporting of the conflict(s) in the Middle East. I realise today is the anniversary of the horrific attack on Israeli civilians by Hamas terrorists, but the 1,200 killed and 250 hostages taken is massively outweighed by the 41,000 killed in Gaza by Israel, of which even conservatively more than half are civilians and 11,000 are children. I realise just counting numbers is too simplistic, but there was a long interview this morning with the Israeli foreign secretary today, dismissing any calls for ceasefire and giving a platform to argue for continuing attacks on Gaza, Lebanon and any "proxies" of Iran and even the "Thought for the day" piece by a Rabi felt unbalanced. I don't know what the answer is, but disproportionately airing one side of the views on such a tragic topic feels wrong, for a national broadcaster. Hmm. Idly clicking on Facebook profiles (some random post about Big Brother had someone commenting some bollocks about woke-ness so I clicked through to her profile to see how much other bollocks she said) - she linked to a report claiming that the BBC were biased against Israel. If that was ever true, it certainly feels like the pendulum has swung now to the other side. It's appalling how our dialogue in this matter (not here, but in general discourse) has become about side-taking, any criticism of Israel means you're a Hamas lover and anti-semite, any criticism of Hamas and you're a Zionist. And I'm consistently appalled by the government backing Israel and Netanyahu not just with words but with weapons. The whole situation is terrible and sad. And I can't see an end. |
11:08am
11:08am, 7 Oct 2024
51,102 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
LindsD wrote: I don't disagree with any of the points made above but did find this thought-provoking. theguardian.com That was an interesting article, thanks for sharing Linds. I wasn't aware of that false accusation against Jews (killing children for their blood - utterly ridiculous and wholly false), but just another example of the terrible persecution that they have experienced for centuries from Christians and societies in general. Abhorrent. I know you weren't equating this, but I feel the author was implying that there are similar false accusations in the bombs that are hitting hospitals and schools and killing children in Gaza. And as you know, I certainly am NOT saying that, and while I'm sure there are sections of the public discourse saying that, I haven't seen any such accusation of deliberate targeting that he describes. But what I am saying is a terrible crime is not that it is deliberate, not that there is any reason that the Jewish religion would *want* to kill children, in any way. Of course not. That would be a scurrilous and wholly spurious accusation. But that it is accidental, "collateral damage" in the military parlance, doesn't make it excusable, imho. That it is a state, defending itself, nothing to do with religion doesn't make it defensible. 41,000 people, mostly civilians, 11,000 children. This is not how to "make Israel safe". It is not how to secure peace. It is not how to defend borders. If your enemies are terrorists, you have a hard battle. But no matter how difficult, flattening civilian areas and killing civilians and children, the old and the sick is not the way to do it. Apart from being barbaric and sickening, it's ineffective. You can't eradicate terrorism and hate, by killing. Terrorism and hate are fuelled by killing. I know I'm not proposing any solutions. What would do G? My answers would just be laughable to most. a. protect only: iron dome anti-missile protection; bunkers for people etc. invest as much as you want. b. talk, educate, share, invest (yes, fund your enemy!), infiltrate (in a good way, a peace offensive), give them respect, land, statehood, prospects, hope, a future. Be their friend, not their enemy. It might take 50 years, 2 generations for enmities to dwindle (I won't say die, because there will always be a handful that hark back to ancient grudges), but it's been going on for 75 years so far, with no end in sight. I'm not religious, so I can't pray for sense and peace to break out. But I am hoping and wishing and begging for it. |
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11:17am
11:17am, 7 Oct 2024
51,103 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Exactly JK, and we need our representatives in our countries to be a. stopping arms sales (defensive anti missile protection excepted) b. using all diplomatic pressure to demand ceasefires c. including but not limited to sanctioning all sides |
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11:19am
11:19am, 7 Oct 2024
70,202 posts
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LindsD
Broadly agree with you. Am out and about so can't really give your post the response it deserves
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12:02pm
12:02pm, 7 Oct 2024
46,353 posts
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SPR
Regarding the article it feels like it's making an argument that isn't being made currently or at least not in the mainstream. Has anyone said that Israel is using precision missiles to target children? I thought the issue is the wide spread bombing of Gaza would inevitably lead to lots of children dying given how densely populated it is.
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