2:27pm
2:27pm, 19 Sep 2024
69,833 posts
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LindsD
Something with The Donald?
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2:30pm
2:30pm, 19 Sep 2024
25,643 posts
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larkim
paulcook wrote: Farage standing down as leader of Reform and relinquishing all his shares to members. What’s he up to? Where's this? Can't see it on the BBC or Grauniad? |
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2:31pm
2:31pm, 19 Sep 2024
25,644 posts
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larkim
bbc.co.uk Doesn't say he's standing down as leader though? |
2:33pm
2:33pm, 19 Sep 2024
5,710 posts
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FergusG
The Clacton MP will continue to be Reform UK's leader but said: "I no longer need to be in control of Reform so I'm surrendering all of my shares."
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2:34pm
2:34pm, 19 Sep 2024
11,680 posts
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Fields
LindsD wrote: As has already been said, that employer (and I read the article this morning before you posted it) was behaving in ways that are against the law. That's not the fault of the EU. And I also agree with jda. Neither my husband nor I live in the place in which we were raised, and we are both much the richer for it. I know this is anecdata. I am curious why anyone might think I am arguing against mobility as a concept. My issue is with the EU creating conditions for workers to be exploited and not doing anything to prevent it. Essentially the EU provides a pool of impoverished workers who are willing to accept poorer conditions in another country. These conditions are perhaps bearable for a short period of time and may pay more than in the workers country of origin but essentially provide a precarious existence and preclude a normal family life due to their long hours, lack of time off and low, unreliable pay. The only winner is the boss class, ie people like larkim. None of the people in the articles are getting much benefit from experiencing another culture. Is this the future you want for Europe? |
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2:40pm
2:40pm, 19 Sep 2024
25,645 posts
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larkim
I would question why you think Europe is intentionally creating conditions for workers to be exploited. What part of the EU project actively makes that an objective? From my perspective, the EU imposes higher standards of employment on those that join it, and whilst they are not right at the top end of where in an ideal world I'd like to see workers rights, they are undoubtedly higher than most entrant countries start with. The fact that the regulations aren't strong enough to ensure that all workers receive fantastic protection from employers is just an argument for tighter and stronger EU regulation, not evidence that the EU is purposely degrading workers rights in favour of "bosses". (And loving the accusation that I'm part of the "boss class"!) There is still too far to go for workers to be treated fairly throughout Europe. But arguing that the EU is making things worse rather than better feels wrong in the face of evidence to the contrary (on the whole). |
2:44pm
2:44pm, 19 Sep 2024
6,488 posts
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paulcook
I’ve probably misunderstood or misread the ownership part. Still seems he’s potentially up to something to me. |
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2:47pm
2:47pm, 19 Sep 2024
69,834 posts
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LindsD
And how is the EU providing 'a pool of impoverished workers'? And what would you have those people, if they exist, do in their home countries? Be unemployed?
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2:50pm
2:50pm, 19 Sep 2024
17,828 posts
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jda
One of the first things that the EU (EC as then was) did of note to me after I started work (and shortly thereafter became a local union rep) was to introduce COUNCIL DIRECTIVE 1999/70/EC eur-lex.europa.eu wherein they clamped down on the unscrupulous use of repeated fixed-term appointments to deny employees their usual employment rights. This had an immediate positive effect on my employment situation and many others like me. As a union rep I was able to use it to argue against my employer's behaviour in various ways. Admittedly, employers (particularly in the UK) have subsequently found ways of undermining and watering down its effect, but it was certainly pressure in the right direction that improved the contractual conditions of many workers, particularly at the bottom end of the pile. The idea that the EU is always on the side of the bosses is just silly ignorant nonsense. |
3:04pm
3:04pm, 19 Sep 2024
46,173 posts
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SPR
I think the point would be that people in the country won't do the job as the pay for the work is not good enough and instead of improving standards the work just gets a load of people overseas to do the job. EU workers probably have it better due to freedom of movement as they can quit and remain while looking for other work AIUI. Whether they do is another matter given the market. Those on work visas tied to a company are in a worse position and even more likely to be exploited. Think the social care area has this issue (many jobs minimum wage and I imagine the black hole will get significantly bigger if that changes). Obviously wages aren't going up while there's a steady supply of labour. So could the EU do anything more via rules? |
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