10 Sep
8:21am, 10 Sep 2024
11,608 posts
|
Fields
The Labour Party are just doing what the market demands All hail the markets! Never mind the workers |
10 Sep
9:17am, 10 Sep 2024
22,963 posts
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DeeGee
The state pension is guaranteed to increase yearly by at least the same percentage as prices. Salaries do not. So much for the workers! |
10 Sep
10:02am, 10 Sep 2024
22,985 posts
|
rf_fozzy
The debate on winter fuel allowance seems to miss 3 key points: 1. The thing will be means tested - 'each according to need' would seem to apply here. 2. Pensions are still rising faster than wages. Especially if you've had a 20-25% real terms pay cut working in the public sector since 2008. 3. We've gone into the Schrödinger's pensioner debate: **all** pensioners are simultaneously either fabulously wealthy with gold-plated final salary private pensions or completely destitute vulnerable people who can't afford to heat their houses to 3billion degrees C. The truth is obviously there is a spectrum and in our slanging match to attack Labour from left and right for being too left wing/not pure enough left wing, the nuance and policy details discussion is lost In the end it was stupid that it was a universal benefit for all - *many* pensioners don't need it. BUT. The threshold being applied here to where it will apply seems to be perhaps a little too harsh. I suspect it might get bumped up a bit in the budget. |
10 Sep
10:12am, 10 Sep 2024
25,539 posts
|
larkim
Maybe the debate should also go along the lines of "if you wanted to rapidly make a change that took £1.5bn off the annual spending for the UK, what would you do instead that would be as quick to implement and as specific in its impact"? Or maybe it is as simple as politics; the pensioners who get the allowance that don't need it probably aren't a group that Labour needs electorally. And if properly implemented so that pensioners who do need it, get it, then what is the issue? |
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10 Sep
10:22am, 10 Sep 2024
22,965 posts
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DeeGee
Imagine if it were any other group that the taxpayer funds to be unproductive receiving a no-obligation tax free 400 handout, while the people who work jobs to keep the country running - 10.6 million key workers kept the country functional during the global health emergency - have to find the money to pay for power, and some key workers are having to choose to either eat or heat or relying on food banks. The same sort of people that 30p Lee insists just need help with budgeting... |
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10 Sep
10:23am, 10 Sep 2024
22,966 posts
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DeeGee
*£200 handout, sorry. It's a £400 payrise they're getting.
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10 Sep
10:23am, 10 Sep 2024
21,966 posts
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Dave W
And if they follow through with the promise to roll out the Pensions Credit to the 880,000 households who are entitled to it but don't currently claim it, then that will be a good thing. Might have been more politically acceptable to have done that first, but the loss of the winter fuel allowance might just spur some people on to claim what they are entitled to.
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10 Sep
10:25am, 10 Sep 2024
6,392 posts
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paulcook
Like I say, I think some of the more interesting debate will be around Labour's reaction. According to Labour's own guidance it could kill 4,000 pensioners this winter. It wasn't in the manifesto, yet there's a potential for up to 40 rebels (I don't know if that's abstaining or voting against, because personally I wouldn't count the former as rebelling). Are the party really going to take away the whip again from rebels as they seem to be threatening over a policy that wasn't in the manifesto and could kill 4,000 people? Alternatives? Back of fag packet calculations, but Green Party wealth tax would raise more than this saves. Secondly, Ukraine "funding for as long it is needed" dwarves these savings. |
10 Sep
10:28am, 10 Sep 2024
1,303 posts
|
Spanners99
It is all about choices. I tend to agree that the payment of a universal benefit to all pensioners is a huge waste of resources. I do find it odd that the focus is on poor pensioners in media. Who as others have said have done very nicely as a group from last decade. I have 3 kids all now young adults and I feel for them. They have got worst of all worlds compared to myself. I think the media and public need to take a more grown up view of everyone. The government now has very little room to do anything. Taxes are going to go up and overall some people will be worse off. Those at margins will always suffer more. I find it depressing that attention always goes to this. Huge noise and complaints that its not fair on so and so. Some are going to feel pain. Lets be honest and say yes they are and someone has to |
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10 Sep
10:33am, 10 Sep 2024
22,987 posts
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rf_fozzy
This feels relevant to the debate: bsky.app Pensioners least likely to be in poverty as a group and most overrepresented in political decisions (despite their perceptions) Btw Paul, the green party wealth tax is almost certainly unimplentable. The tax experts I've seen (e.g. Dan Neidle) seem to suggest it could work as a one off, but as an ongoing venture would be rife with issues and would require a massive, expensive bureaucracy to manage. I've somewhat changed my mind on a wealth tax - there are options that would be better I think. |
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